WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Kath]

Are you kidding me? Another Day with two revelations? And our only way to prove it is to lynch one or the other of them, which I don't really want to do. Thing is, both stories are so plausible! Mac's has an especially neat get out clause with him only able to see whether a person is an ordo or not rather than what they actually are, as now when someone asks 'so why didn't you dream of Volo last Night to find out what he was' he can simply answer 'because he would only have shown up as different'.

*sigh*

I'm more inclined to trust Volo. Mac has no useful information. He's only dreamt of good guys and half of those he's dreamt of are dead. Why would a Seer reveal unless they had at least one wolf bagged? Although to be fair that's an argument against Volo too, did he ever say why he revealed so early?

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

Ideas people?

[Kath]

Cross-posted with a whole lot of people there right up til Aganzir.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Kath

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

I guess lynching Mac or Spm is just as easy a way to find out if Volo's on our side...

[Volo]

Kath... Hey, come on! Why would there be a normal Seer when the other roles are wierd?

EDIT: Xd with Aganzir. Yeah. Pity a doubble-lynch will be messed up by them, but we've got them and they can't run away.

Kath also feels pretty lynchable, don't you think? Oh, I'm overexcited. Let's wait for Ang and Legate and everybody else.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Kath... Hey, come on! Why would there be a normal Seer when the other roles are wierd?

I am no normal seer, as you have surely read from my post.

[Kath]

No Aganzir if Mac is on our side (and it's a big if looking at the evidence Volo has just presented us with) it's too dangerous to test it by lynching him. To be honest though, I'm thinking he's evil. Volo just has too much back up. And I guess he is right, why would there be a normal Seer in this game?

Ok scratch that, I'll lynch Mac.

Volo, I'm mildly confused. What exactly do you know? These riddles or whatever, have you had one for both Mac and Sauce?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Kath

Mac's has an especially neat get out clause with him only able to see whether a person is an ordo or not rather than what they actually are, as now when someone asks 'so why didn't you dream of Volo last Night to find out what he was' he can simply answer 'because he would only have shown up as different'.

No, I didn't dream of Volo because I already knew he's on the evil side, and I cannot distinguish a wolf from a cobbler.

Why would a Seer reveal unless they had at least one wolf bagged?

Because everybody would have believed Volo if I didn't! What choice did I have?

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

If Volo lies and you lynch me, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch.

If I lie and you lynch Volo, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch, but the wolves also lose a Night's kill.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

But by "lynching" him we'd make it a lot easier for the wolves to finish him off the next Night, which they couldn't do unless we'd already tried to kill him.

edit: as you surely knew yourself.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But by "lynching" him we'd make it a lot easier for the wolves to finish him off the next Night, which they couldn't do unless we'd already tried to kill him.

Yes, sure you do, but it's still better than lynching me, since I have no special survival power that Volo claims to have.

[Aganzir]

And I think the easiest way for you both is to lynch Spm. If he's a wolf or the cobbler, we can trust Volo and lynch you next. And if not, then it's Volo to die next.

edit: corrected a name

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

If Volo lies and you lynch me, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch.

If I lie and you lynch Volo, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch, but the wolves also lose a Night's kill.

If we lynch me you lose a lynch turn and me, because the wolves will kill me next Night.

If we lynch Mac we lose a wolf, a lynch turn and an innocent or half of me at Night.


Yeah, I'm going to "sleep". Sure, like I can sleep now...


EDIT: Xd with Mac, Kath and Aganzir.

Mac, invent the role NOW, quickly!

Kath, I invented the riddle for Mac to test him out. If he'd acted calmly, I'd have told him that I think he's innocent. And I got the riddle about SPM from Rikae as the Dream.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

If we lynch Mac we lose a wolf, a lynch turn and an innocent or half of me at Night.

Riiight.

Another idea: Since we are now without rangers, I am going to be dead this way or the other, so we could try a double lynching of me and Volo. I would be ready to sacrifice myself for it, since I can't tell you my next dream anyway.

~crossed with Aganzir

[Kath]

And I think the easiest way for you both is to lynch Spm.

I actually agree with that, and the way Sauce responds will certainly tell us something. As an ordo he should really be willing to die to find out the truth (though I know from experience that it's very hard to give yourself up in these games, you want to see them through!). Of course, he'll probably turn up and claim he's the Seer now.

We should NOT lynch Volo and Mac. Mac is doing the put-upon innocent routine right now and whether it's real or not lynching the both of them is just stupid. One of them is our Seer, a double lynch is ridiculous as it will kill both of them. Mac right off and Volo by the end of the Night. The fact that Mac has suggested it has kinda sealed his fate for me, but I'd still rather get some proof.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Kath

We should NOT lynch Volo and Mac. Mac is doing the put-upon innocent routine right now and whether it's real or not lynching the both of them is just stupid. One of them is our Seer, a double lynch is ridiculous as it will kill both of them. Mac right off and Volo by the end of the Night. The fact that Mac has suggested it has kinda sealed his fate for me, but I'd still rather get some proof.

You assume that Volo is truthful about his claim to have two lives. I highly doubt that.

If we end up lynching the evil person (Volo), then I will die during the night anyway.
If we end up lynching the good person (me), then Volo will continue living and you will have to use another lynch to get rid of him.

~crossed with Legate

[Macalaure]

Just why am I not surprised by Legate's reaction.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Kath, I invented the riddle for Mac to test him out. If he'd acted calmly, I'd have told him that I think he's innocent. And I got the riddle about SPM from Rikae as the Dream.

Volo, would you please stop to edit your posts to such degrees! Of course you can play more sneakier as the baddie you are, but your bending the general rules with that.

PS: If I was an ordo and got that "double fake dream" of yours, I would have protested loudly, too. Being unable to make a counter claim to your claimed seerness, nobody would have believed me and you would have laughed until you were lynched tomorrow.

[Kath]

Actually Volo I do agree with Mac on that, please don't go back and edit your posts. It took me a full Day to figure out why people were talking about your revelation 'cause I couldn't find a new post with that in.

So you don't actually know Mac is evil? Well that settles it then. We lynch Sauce. Mac says he's innocent, Volo says he's evil. Whatever he turns out to be tells us who we trust.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Kath

So you don't actually know Mac is evil? Well that settles it then. We lynch Sauce. Mac says he's innocent, Volo says he's evil. Whatever he turns out to be tells us who we trust.

Well, now what I said before seems logical: SpM is a cobbler and Kath is trying to save Mac and let us lynch the Cobbler. Cf. my post. Be careful, all innocents have to vote together, we have quite a lot of baddies here (4). Wow, really adrenaline.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, now what I said before seems logical: SpM is a cobbler and Kath is trying to save Mac and let us lynch the Cobbler. Cf. my post. Be careful, all innocents have to vote together, we have quite a lot of baddies here (4). Wow, really adrenaline.

Hmmm... Good point. I'll stick with Mac for now.

Xd with everything since my last post.

[Kath]

Legate ... what? I know Volo has cleared you, that was entirely the point. We need to lynch someone that has been 'dreamt' of one way or another to prove or disprove someone's claim of being the Seer. But that's actually not you, it's Sauce, as there is an opinion on him from both sides.

Surely you can see that lynching Sauce is the best way to prove this? For starters if he's evil we've got rid of a Cobbler and if he's innocent we know who to trust.

[Aganzir]

Rune had suspected Mac so long that I wouldn't wonder if it was him who he spied the Night he died...

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

PS: If I was an ordo and got that "double fake dream" of yours, I would have protested loudly, too. Being unable to make a counter claim to your claimed seerness, nobody would have believed me and you would have laughed until you were lynched tomorrow.

Yep, if you were an ordo. But then you would have said " I'm just a quiet ordo, I'm simply innocent."

I think Kath is innocent and I agree with lynching SPM though he's probably the Cobbler...

I'm going off now but I'll be around in 18 hours or so.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Yep, if you were an ordo. But then you would have said " I'm just a quiet ordo, I'm simply innocent."

And I would have been lynched with that phrase on my lips.

[Volo]

Xd my last post with everything since #314 and this post with everything since my last post.

I'm sorry about the EDIT-confusion. It's something I've always done and seen people do, but if it's really annoying I'll stop. (though it is damn helpful)

Originally Posted by Legate

P.S. Stay careful all. The Wolves might try to wreak havoc and confuse us. I suggest we lynch Mac today and Kath tomorrow, maybe you could check her, Volo? Then we'll see.

I can't choose my dreams...

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

I can't choose my dreams...

I can!

Seriously, I have said all I can. It depends on you people now.

(PS: why is that one 'o' bolded )

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Volo: Got that. I just haven't time to read through yesterday properly, I arrived about an hour before the start... I spent most time with SpM's status against me.

Originally Posted by Kath

For starters if he's evil we've got rid of a Cobbler and if he's innocent we know who to trust.

For starters, if Mac is lying, and that is what we will learn when he is lynched, then Volo is, together with all the other facts, not lying. If we get rid of a Cobbler, we don't help our case in any way, because there will be still three wolves running around. And they need to get the upper hand in numbers, Cobbler, in this, is on our side (he counts to the number of innocents). If we don't listen to him and ignore him, he can't do anything apart from voting for one of us. When SpM comes, you'll see it from his vote - of course, I strongly suggest ignoring everything he says, because whatever it will be, it will be meant to confuse us. Just act like he werent't there.