Werewolf Four and Thirty: Bloodbath in the Anduin Vale

[xyzzy]

It was entirely flavor; I'm not seriously suspicious of someone for getting the first post!

A little jealous, though. :P

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Yes lynching quiet people have often been helpful, not always by getting wolves. . .actually we have lynched way more quiet innocents. The main problem with quiet people is that when the end of the game approaches you dare not vote for them as you do not have a clear picture of them and would rather kill someone you actually suspect.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

What I ment to say with the previouse post was that if we are going to lynch quiet people we should do it before too late in the game, so that we wont have the dilema of going after a suspect or a quiet person. (for me they are seldome the same)

[Boromir88]

It pains me to do this, because I am going to feel so bad about it; with the long history between Menel and myself. But I got a bad feeling about him already.

Welle, ye only waye I canne see to induce these Wolves to talke is to lynche ye moste unhelpfulle ones.

I must profoundly object to this one. Every day is precious, we can't just waste them by voting off unhelpful villagers, that strategy will get us into trouble and put us in a tough vice towards the end. When is it that the wolves are the unhelpful ones in the village? All wolves talk and participate to varying degrees, all to varying degrees, but never is a wolf going to appear unhelpful. There are the quiet, lay low wolves, but there is a difference between being quiet and being unhelpful.

This whole proposal Menel gets me wonderin' about your identity sir knight. Our votes are the ordinary innocents only weapon against the wolves and we must not waste days by throwing our votes away for someone who albeit it is being unhelpful, but nevertheless someone you don't find all that suspicious of. Our votes are precious and the suggestion that we waste them doesn't sit right with me.

I don'te see what possible advantage this villager woulde provide.

ummm...their vote

Your jump on xyzzy; Menel is also quite alarming...considering I really think Nogrod and you are making too much out of his first post.

not being the one expected (in relation to SPM's narration)~Rikae

I'm curious Rikae, because I have no clue what you're talking about. I am bad at picking up on clues out of the narration, so if you wouldn't mind pointing me out to the 'one not expected' in the narration, that would be great.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by "narration'

They have waylaid some of the travellers on their journey here, and assumed their identities.

Which, logically, would mean they WERE the ones expected, of course. But it is still rather eerie to have someone showing up saying "my father was supposed to come, but blah blah blah", and my first impulse was to think it was some sort of hint...possibly to or from a cobbler.

As for you, Boro, I'm surprised to see you taking the easy road of arguing against the LTQ (lynch the quiet) strategy and suspecting the one who suggests it. Surely you've seen enough quiet wolf victories...in the last two games alone, quiet wolves hung on until the end and were a thorn in our sides. A quiet player is just as likely as a vocal one to be lupine; and any lynch risks killing an ordo. In the absence of solid suspicions (which might not be absent after all by the end of the day) I'd rather see a quiet ordo (who is impossible to analyse) lynched than a vocal ordo who is helpful and easier to examine.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Except that, this being her first game and all, I'm not sure she knows exactly what a Cobbler is.

Is there some prior history between Menel and Boro that I should know about?

[Meneltarmacil]

Welle, I am backe. And to answer thy questione, Shasta, yea, my house and that of Boro have feuded for quite a while, each of us having been suspiciouse of ye other for divers reasones. He hath sent many a father of mine to ye grave, Wolfe or Innocente.

Boromir88, thou hast always had a bad feeling about me. What maketh this one more trustworthy than ye last fewe times? Ye reasone for lynching ye quiete woulde be to drawe ye wolves out into ye open. This is merely a strategy to force people to talke, and thus provide more material to analyze and more potential for Wolfe mistakes to emerge. If there is another way to force people to talke more oftenne, I cannotte see it.

Xyzzy's suddenne, randomme suspicione seemed like a very odd move, and even if it were a joke as he claimeth, it doth not clear his name. Accusing people jokingly on ye firste Day is oftenne a signe of a Wolfe.

[Rikae]

Menel, please. The spelling. It. Hurts. My. Head. In character is nice, but all things in moderation!

[Durelin]

Ahem.

"On behalf of Follywood, I'd like to point out that whether or not we should lynch those who are considered 'quiet' is rather an un-moot point, seeing as it's only the early half of Day 1, we're only 28 posts into the game, and only ten (now eleven) of the delegates have even arrived.

"I'd agree in an instant that our odds of catching a wolf among the now nine who are not yet present is pretty darn good, but...well, for one thing I don't want to be stuck with both Boro and Noggie left after such a purge."

Doureling slowly scans the crowd...and quickly does a double-take.

ohmigosh!!!!@!!1!!1!!!!one!!!

Quickly gathering back up her composure, the Follywood delegate exhales slowly.

"I didn't see you there, Kath..."

++Kath

[Boromir88]

Which, logically, would mean they WERE the ones expected, of course. But it is still rather eerie to have someone showing up saying "my father was supposed to come, but blah blah blah", and my first impulse was to think it was some sort of hint...possibly to or from a cobbler.~Rikae

I see thank you. Isabell's post is completely in-character as you have remarked upon, but I think I'll wait for her to post some more. This is the first time I have been in her presense and I will reserve my judgement whether her first post was harmless in-character fun or some sort of wicked wolvish scheme.

It's not so much being against 'lynch the quiet' you can say its more of the manner Menel said lynch the 'unhelpful.' Yes there are bound to be quiet wolves and they are going to be tough to get out...but there is a difference between being unhelpful and keeping a low profile (being quiet).

I don't understand why any innocent would not want to help out and contribute but the way Menel says it looks evil...let me explain it this way.

Welle, ye only waye I canne see to induce these Wolves to talke is to lynche ye moste unhelpfulle ones.

The point being the wolves are not going to want to appear unhelpful. They are going to want to fit in, they are going be want to look helpful, not unhelpful. The way quiet wolves do fit in is pop in with a little comment once in a while that we all skim over and cast aside, which creates a low profile and we virtually just forget about him/her. Even if they are quiet they still are going to want to appear helpful and contributing, they just don't participate as much...because being quiet creates their low profile, and by appearing helpful (with the few posts they do make) this is what causes us all to forget about them (because nothing stands out in their posts they seem normal).

It's the way Menel phrases it...its all coming off to me as 'well if we can't find a wolf, lets waste a day and lynch someone who isn't helping.' I don't think we can just go and waste days so needlessly...our job is to lynch wolves not lynch an unhelpful villager to get the wolves talking. The wolves are going to be talking and contributing anyway, and some of the wolves are probably going to be amongst the quiet crowd, but that doesn't mean these quiet wolves aren't going to appear helpful and contributing.

Edit: x-ed with Durelin

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

never is a wolf going to appear unhelpful

Never say never, dear. And never forget who you play with. There are a half dozen on this moot list whose potential for 'never' isn't something I'll assume about.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Here's one more supporter of "lynch someone you can't form a picture about because of his/her constant absence if you don't have a (good) reason to lynch a louder person/ a contributor"-tactics.

I agree. If within a couple days, you still have no clue who a certain player is, I think you should have no real reservations about mercilessly martyring them to the cause. In a game with evidence based entirely on language, people who shirk in their ability to use it are a waste of time and energy. In chess, you let the pawns go first.

Originally Posted by TGWBS

Yes, I agree, let's lynch all those quiet ones. Starting with that there Feanor *points*. Why does she say nothing? Why is she painting us?

Aww, I missed you too, darling. Would you like to be painted in almost-ripe-banana green? Or would you prefer blue jay blue? I'm a happy impressionist, so you might not recognize yourself by the time I'm done, but if you're lucky, I won't paint you with fangs. Give me reason to, mind you, and I'll paint a very pretty picture of you savaging the moot. I'm withholding opinion on this matter for a little while.

Originally Posted by The Sixth Wizard

Well, we know Fea has played WereWolf before, so perhaps she is just laying low deliberately... But that was a bit jumpy Shorty. We have to use SOME strategy with quiet peeps, don't we? I don't know what kind of strategy, but something.

As I'd already mentioned, I spent yesterday moving from school to home for the summer. And while I'd happily lay low deliberately, yesterday wasn't intentional. Look me up if I seem ridiculously unhelpful later on.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I guess Fea said she's moving toDay or something, so maybe she isn't laying low deliberately.

Ooh! Somebody beat me to it. It's nice seeing people remember my words. Thanks, Aganzir.

On a side note, if you haven't realized it, I'm writing this post in chronological unedited order as I read what I've missed. So if anything is redundant or if I change my mind, it's for that reason.

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Ah. So she did. Never mind... I will try to get her lynched tomorrow instead.

My thanks for your generosity.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

It is a bit routine to have "Lynch Boromir" as the default setting?

As a rule, I've noticed that it's routine to have "Lynch ____" as default, wherein the person whose sneakiness you most respect gets to fill in the blank. If the phantom was playing, I'd campaign for his death first day because he can't be trusted. Savvy?

In this game, the list of people I have no natural trust for (based experiencially) are:

Mormegil
Nogrod
Boromir88
Kath

And myself, but I don't count.

They would fit into a routine lynch campaign even if only for the reason that I know from watching them that their seeming is often at odds with their being. Knowing they could fool you if they wanted to doesn't make for restful moot-nights.

Still, as of right now, I have no real suspicion of any of them.

TBC--

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fresh Snow:
Nogrod
Boromir88
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Kath
the guy who be short
Rune Son of Bjarne

Blood-stained:
Mormegil (perpetually so, said with love)
Mithalwen (because I say so, also with love)

Shrug-worthy:
Gil-Galad
Shastanis Althreduin
Aganzir
Rikae
Durelin
Volo
Meneltarmacil
The Sixth Wizard
Isabellkya

++XYZZY

Because I have nobody better to vote for at the moment.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Interesting I too have no trust for Mormegil . . .

Anyways I see that a small case is building up around Menel and if it continues I would not be suprised to see him lynched soon. I however will not join the cause just yet as I have a history of finding Menel suspiciouse, advocating his death, only to find him innocent. Of course this could be the time he is guilty, but just for now I shall not be voting for him.

I could actually say the same thing about Boro, i always find him a bit suspicouse. The main difference is that sometimes I am right and he is furry.

Anyways I will have to vote soon and it is going to be a pretty random vote as I have noticed anything worthy of a vote yet.

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Legate

I think there's been quite a lot of speculation about "quiet ones" and "not quiet ones". Though I have experience from very recent past that indeed these were the quiet ones who were a threat, I will be careful about not getting into the other extreme, that is, starting bloodthirstingly killing all who say nothing or a little. It is true however, that in later time of the game, I will be for lynching people like this, because you'd say they had enough time to speak and they didn't. I mean (as someone already said here before) that on the first Days, I'll back from doing something like that (some people might not even get much online, e.g. Fea today). However, as three or four days pass, I'd also focus on the silent ones, because if they wanted, they could speak. I think it was Rune who already mentioned it here somewhere and I think it's a good opinion.

Now then... What you're saying seems to be the opposite of what ole Rune said. He said kill the quiet now, because it may be too late when we get in a few days. This means we can kill the loud people later on. I like this idea. You, on the other hand, advocate killing the quiet later on, which I think is a bit of a bad idea. Later on, we'll still have very little idea about the quiet people, but we'll have formed strong opinions about the loud. We would therefore probably end up, as ever, lynching the loud.

Not accusing you, just pointing this out.

And in the vein of killing the quiet,

++DURELIN

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Now then... What you're saying seems to be the opposite of what ole Rune said. He said kill the quiet now, because it may be too late when we get in a few days. This means we can kill the loud people later on. I like this idea. You, on the other hand, advocate killing the quiet later on, which I think is a bit of a bad idea. Later on, we'll still have very little idea about the quiet people, but we'll have formed strong opinions about the loud. We would therefore probably end up, as ever, lynching the loud.

Ah-ha! Indeed, I must've misread it somehow. Okay, in that case I'm opposing to it. Though I must say, as I read it now, it's a good idea in the fact that if we lynch someone quiet early, we'll be "right" to do it. I can't forget that I said something very similar in my first game when I was a wolf (I said: "lynching a silent innocent is ok because he is worth nothing for the village"), however, interesting thing is that all the village was after me because of saying it (well, those who remember it know it wasn't much of a big case, but what I want to say is that it created a wave of disagreement. Now here there are several people saying basically the same, and everyone thinks it okay? Just meditating on this, because, in fact, I agree with that - I was honest in this opinion even back then: But why now, with many people being the same, no one protests vehemently against it, as they did before?)
Now back to the topic - I think, actually, lynching quiet ones is a good thing to do if you have no better suspect. Especially at the beginning, when the voting is (let's confess it) quite random. Basically said (and once again, it sounds quite cruel): "Even if we lynch an innocent, it isn't such a loss, it's his fault, he should have been more vocal." Your thoughts are logical on this. But how comes suddenly everyone thinks it is a good idea and no one protests? If it were such a great idea, why didn't everyone do it in the games before? And, mainly, note that from my experience before, I was a Wolf when I adviced that. Why I said it then? Because all the wolves were vocal. And with players we have this time ( ) I wouldn't wonder if all the wolves were vocal. And, if you once start this strategy (of voting out quiet ones), the wolves, unless they are completely stupid, will speak up. Of course it will force them to participate more, thus, be more vulnerable to be caught lying or something like that. But that wouldn't compare with killing quiet innocents, who may even be Gifted. And the biggest problem I see with this is, as I said in my earlier post, that we might accidentally lynch a quiet innocent, who had the bad luck not to get to the computer on Day 1, for whatever reason; or even didn't have chance to speak up yet because his timing is bad, and some people who have to leave their computers already have to vote now, and just because he arrives five minutes after them they classify him as "non-posting" and vote him. If anything, I'd leave this strategy on Day 1 out. It's in nothing better than voting for a vocal player because he seems fishy to you based on several Day 1 posts.
EDIT: x-ed with Volo&Rune