Locations of certain places

[Rumil]

Hi Galin et al,

you got me curious about Himling, so I had a quick Wiki and found

^ Most canonical maps give the Island's name as Himling, but this spelling is erroneous: it was originally a name used by J. R. R. Tolkien for the Hill itself, later replaced by Himring. The Island appears only once on an early map for The Lord of the Rings and is labeled Himling there. Since the map was later than the change, Christopher Tolkien decided to retain this spelling onto his map for the Unfinished Tales (included also into recent editions of The Lord of the Rings). But in a rough note, which is contemporary with J. R. R. Tolkien's map, the Hill itself is called Himling, suggesting that the Isle's name is an equal slip. See The Treason of Isengard, p. 124 and note 18, and Unfinished Tales, note on the map in Introduction.

I looked in the UT intro and found that CT says that Himling was on his father's sketch map and his own first draft and says that Tol Fuin in somewhere to the West (though doesn't say whether it did appear on JRRT's sketch).

So this shows that Himling was at least sketched by JRRT but not, as you say, published by him. Does anyone have access to The Treason of Isengard quote?

I guess this point is quite crucial for would-be Middle Earth cartographers!

[Galin]

The Himling text and the early map drawn by JRRT appear to date about 1940.

The external history implies that Himring was the later form of the name for the hill. Christopher Tolkien notes that Himling was the earlier form of Himring in his introduction to Unfinished Tales (about the map), or for example, see the Hill of Himling in The Lay Of Leithian, and commentary: 'Two new elements in the geography appear in this canto: the Hill of Himling (later Himring) rising in the east of the Gorge of Aglon (2994)'

It appears Christopher Tolkien drew the general map published in the First Edition (he made it in 1953), but this detail got left out for some reason. Then the poster-map comes around years later, about which Tolkien added details: 'She [Pauline Baynes] consulted with Tolkien, who sent her a marked photocopy of the general map, as well as additional names to include and advice on a few points of topography and nomenclature...' Hammond And Scull RC

And later we have the detail appearing on the map made for Unfinished Tales of course.

[Rumil]

Hi Galin,

thanks for the detailed information, fascinating but frustrating stuff!

Of course Christopher has the right to add to JRRT's work, but it seems he might not have been well-advised to do so here in light of the comments that all remained of Beleriand was Lindon and Tol Morwen, creating a definite inconsistency.

Still, I wonder if the location of Himling could still be 'correct', while recognising that it was less of an island and more of a hazard to shipping! This could still allow the inter-relationship of the Third age and First Age maps to be determined accurately without requiring additional real estate.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It's to be remembered that young Christopher did the original Map in a tearing hurry, working 24 hours straight to meet a publishers' deadline: and so it's understandable if Himling was simply a detail he left out. It's noteworthy that the "Unfinished Tales" map differs from the first (aside from scale) only in the addition of the "Baynes" nomenclature, and the island- which leads me to believe CT considered its omission from his first version to have been a careless omission which needed rectifying.

[Galin]

IIRC there's no specific statement in UT as to what exactly happened with the first edition map here, but that's the implication I get as well.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

OTOH, CT naturally never regarded the 1954 Map as precisely canonical, since his father didn't draw it: it was a copy of his father's, which would be the Vulgate, and presumptively more 'correct' than CT's rendition.

I can even imagine JRRT observing "You've missed out Himling- but it's not that important." Or CT at the time, having already laboriously done the contour-lines around the coast of the mainland, realizing too late that he'd drawn over the island's location. What I can't imagine is JRRT telling him to leave it out- in that case one would expect it to have been erased or crossed off on Tolkien's original: and in the face of such an explicit instruction, CT wouldn't have put it back in the 1980 Map.

[Galin]

Whatever happened, Christopher Tolkien explains...

'... and I have shown the little island of Himling off the far north-western coast, which appears on one of my father's sketch-maps and on my own first draft. Himling was the earlier form of Himring (...) and though the fact is nowhere referred to it is clear that Himring's top rose above the waters that covered drowned Beleriand. Some way to the west of it was a larger island named Tol Fuin, which must be the highest part of Taur-nu-Fuin.' Christopher Tolkien, Unfinished Tales

OTOH, CT naturally never regarded the 1954 Map as precisely canonical, since his father didn't draw it: it was a copy of his father's, which would be the Vulgate, and presumptively more 'correct' than CT's rendition.

Good point.

[Galin]

To add some dating:

1953 Dec

Tolkien writes to R. Unwin. He hopes to provide A&U with proofs of Vol. I and a map: '... presumably marked page proofs and the general map of Middle-earth redrawn by Christopher Tolkien.' (H&S).

1954 February

Tolkien notes he will try to get Christopher to draw the Shire map during a weekend. Tolkien thinks the proof of Christopher's map looks very well, except has some scale concerns and notes that Minas Tirith is too hard to read.

1954 April

Minas Tirith is corrected (made more legible). Tolkien also remarks in a letter with respect to the Shire map and the general map: 'I may say that my son's maps are beautifully clear, as far as reduction in reproduction allows; but they do not contain everything, alas!'

1954 May

Tolkien gets final proofs and approves maps.

1955 April

Tolkien and son Christopher work intensively on a map of Rohan, Gondor, and Mordor for The Return of the King.

With thanks to Hammond and Scull!