Honey, I Forgot to Kill the Dragon - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Holbytlass · 07-29-2007, 10:31 PM

I haven't read Giles in awhile and only a couple of times but what popped in my mind -aren't both Garm and Donkey being the sidekicks both scaredycats?
Usually sidekicks come along because they wish to be part of the adventure seeing themselves as brave. Donkey first attached himself to Shrek because he scared Farquaad's army away... I can't remember why Garm went with Giles. Or did he? I do remember Garm being a weeny.

Estelyn Telcontar · 07-30-2007, 02:43 AM

Garm warned Giles of the danger - but when it came down to going with him, he slunk away if he had the chance. When Garm did accompany Giles, it was only because he was ordered to do so. I think that's why Tolkien claimed in the earlier version of the story that the mare, who stood her ground in the face of the dragon, was the true hero of the story.

Good point, Holby! If there is anything to be learned from the sidekicks, perhaps it's that they must be friends to the heroes, not necessarily heroic themselves.

Guinevere, Shrek the Third is fun to see, even if it no longer has the charm of novelty that the first movie (perhaps the second too) had. And yes, I got a good deal of positive reaction to my lecture, so it was worth the effort!

littlemanpoet · 07-30-2007, 09:45 AM

So Tolkien (of course) could write quite the ironic character when he wished to. We see it in Farmer Giles. Now I want to think about if there are any in other of his writings.

davem · 07-30-2007, 04:27 PM

Of course, Garm in Norse mythology is the name of the hound who guarded the realm of Hel (the Underworld), & slays Tyr, the one-handed god, at Ragnarok. Surely this is an ironic 'echo' of the conflict between Beren & Carcharoth. The original Garm is a terrifying, fearless monster, while Giles' dog is a cowardly cur. Giles as a personal name comes from the latin Aegidius, (from aegis)

Quote:

"protection," 1793, from L. ægis, from Gk. Aigis, the shield of Zeus, said by Herodotus to be related to aix (gen. aigos) "goat," from PIE *aig- "goat" (cf. Skt. ajah, Lith. ozys "he-goat"), as the shield was of goatskin. Athene's aigis was a short goat-skin cloak, covered with scales, set with a gorgon's head, and fringed with snakes.

So Giles is the 'shield' of his people.

I note in passing that 'Farmer Giles' is rhyming slang for piles, which may explain his bad temper & desire to avoid fighting......

Estelyn Telcontar · 05-15-2021, 03:51 AM

...bumping up to contribute to the Farmer Giles discussion.

William Cloud Hicklin · 05-15-2021, 07:56 AM

St Giles is the patron saint of the physically disabled- although I'm not sure I see a connection there

07-29-2007, 10:31 PM	#1
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	I haven't read Giles in awhile and only a couple of times but what popped in my mind -aren't both Garm and Donkey being the sidekicks both scaredycats? Usually sidekicks come along because they wish to be part of the adventure seeing themselves as brave. Donkey first attached himself to Shrek because he scared Farquaad's army away... I can't remember why Garm went with Giles. Or did he? I do remember Garm being a weeny. __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII

07-30-2007, 02:43 AM	#2
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Garm warned Giles of the danger - but when it came down to going with him, he slunk away if he had the chance. When Garm did accompany Giles, it was only because he was ordered to do so. I think that's why Tolkien claimed in the earlier version of the story that the mare, who stood her ground in the face of the dragon, was the true hero of the story. Good point, Holby! If there is anything to be learned from the sidekicks, perhaps it's that they must be friends to the heroes, not necessarily heroic themselves. Guinevere, Shrek the Third is fun to see, even if it no longer has the charm of novelty that the first movie (perhaps the second too) had. And yes, I got a good deal of positive reaction to my lecture, so it was worth the effort! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

05-15-2021, 03:51 AM	#5
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	...bumping up to contribute to the Farmer Giles discussion. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

05-15-2021, 07:56 AM	#6
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	St Giles is the patron saint of the physically disabled- although I'm not sure I see a connection there __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

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07-30-2007, 09:45 AM	#3
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	So Tolkien (of course) could write quite the ironic character when he wished to. We see it in Farmer Giles. Now I want to think about if there are any in other of his writings.