High Elves and the Balrogs

[Mithadan]

I've not gone back to read this entire thread so I may simply be repeating what some other member has said here. The relative strength of the Balrog's opponent may be entirely irrelevant to the question of whether the combatant can survive. There appears to be an unwritten rule in the Legendarium that "he who slays one of the people of the Ainur must also perish." Indeed there is no case known where one who defeats any of the few Maiar reported as slain manages to survive. Ecthelion and Balrog, both died. Glorfindel and Balrog, both died. Gandalf and Balrog (or Balrog and Gandalf), both dead. Wormtongue and Saruman, both dead. Elendil/Gil-Galad and Sauron, all dead.

My, isn't this just so pleasant?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Balrogs vs. Noldor: it's tragically the case that Tolkien only wrote an account of Gondolin's fall twice: the very early Tale, in fact the first one he ever wrote; and the version which perforce was used in the published Silmarillion, which dates from 1930. He never returned to it. Had he finished the 'Long Tuor' (in UT) we might have had a completely new take on Ecthelion and Glorfindel.

It is perhaps worth noting that Gandalf, like these two, had a Gondolin-made sword.

[Mithadan]

In my view, the duel between the Balrog and Glorfindel was basically rewritten as the duel between Gandalf and the Balrog, even to the details of the Balrog tumbling down from a great height and bouncing off the side of the mountain (because either his wings were injured or were shadows incapable of supporting his weight or.... never mind).

I would have liked to have seen Tolkien rewrite the duel of Ecthelion and the Balrog. Impaling a foe on the spike of one's helmet seems inelegant.

[Hammerhand]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

In my view, the duel between the Balrog and Glorfindel was basically rewritten as the duel between Gandalf and the Balrog, even to the details of the Balrog tumbling down from a great height and bouncing off the side of the mountain (because either his wings were injured or were shadows incapable of supporting his weight or.... never mind).

I would have liked to have seen Tolkien rewrite the duel of Ecthelion and the Balrog. Impaling a foe on the spike of one's helmet seems inelegant.

I would love to see a more detailed version of Ecthelion Vs Gothmog aswell, it would be fantastic. I second your notion sir! Two of the most renown warriors of Middle Earth, how glorified, yet how satisfying.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

In my view, the duel between the Balrog and Glorfindel was basically rewritten as the duel between Gandalf and the Balrog, even to the details of the Balrog tumbling down from a great height and bouncing off the side of the mountain (because either his wings were injured or were shadows incapable of supporting his weight or.... never mind).

And the recovery of the hero's body by a Great Eagle... and the fact that both were reincarnated.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Ok, so Lothlorien would be in trouble in trouble if the Balrog or Smaug came there and attacked? What about "the power that dwelt there that was too great for any to overcome unless Sauron came there himself"? Shouldn't this apply to any power lesser to Sauron (which would include Smaug & the Balrog)? And if Galadriel was indeed more powerful than Glorfindel spiritually, then wouldn't it be obvious that she was more like to the level of a maia than Glorifindel who was enhanced?

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Ok, so Lothlorien would be in trouble in trouble if the Balrog or Smaug came there and attacked? What about "the power that dwelt there that was too great for any to overcome unless Sauron came there himself"? Shouldn't this apply to any power lesser to Sauron (which would include Smaug & the Balrog)? And if Galadriel was indeed more powerful than Glorfindel spiritually, then wouldn't it be obvious that she was more like to the level of a maia than Glorifindel who was enhanced?

I think that the reason that it would be a very dangerous thing for a balrog to come to Lothlorien has less to do with Galadriel’s ability to fight either of them, and more to do with the fact that Lothlorien is a forest and balrogs are ancient demons of flames. Whatever other powers she had, I doubt automatic sprinkler system was one of them.

Being slightly more serious, a tightly packed forest is probably not the best place to fight a large beast, simply because of the lack of maneuverability. By the time you would have been able to get close enough to take a swing at it with your sword, half the land you’re fighting on might be on fire. I feel it important to note that most of the places where balrogs were fought were either mountains, cities in mountains, or barren desert-like places. So, as long as you dodged it’s whip you weren’t up in flames. Plus, with Lothlorien the balrog wouldn't even have to enter to destroy it.

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

In my view, the duel between the Balrog and Glorfindel was basically rewritten as the duel between Gandalf and the Balrog, even to the details of the Balrog tumbling down from a great height and bouncing off the side of the mountain (because either his wings were injured or were shadows incapable of supporting his weight or.... never mind).

I would have liked to have seen Tolkien rewrite the duel of Ecthelion and the Balrog. Impaling a foe on the spike of one's helmet seems inelegant.

Yes, in fact I believe I posted something to this effect earlier. The parallels between Gandalf and Glorfindel are pretty striking, even beyond the Balrog fight.

As to the Balrog coming to Lothlorien, this seems to make no sense. Certainly the Balrog would not be able to overcome the protection of Lothlorien, since only Sauron (and probably then with the Ring) would be able to do so. In fact, it seems noteworthy to me that the Balrog stayed hidden in the deep recesses of Moria. There is no record of him ever venturing forth that I know of...

[Mithadan]

The parallels between Gandalf and Glorfindel are pretty striking, even beyond the Balrog fight.

I read somewhere, perhaps here, the theory that there exist in the Legendarium a class of "heroes" known as White Riders. That theory included both Glorfindel and Gandalf within this category, based upon their apparent power over opponents while on horseback and the fact that both seemed to possess an inner white light.