Hobbits in Valinor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Folwren · 08-15-2007, 08:49 AM

Supposing that Hobbits actually did stow away in ships, about what time/year did they do it, do you suppose? Was it before Bilbo's time, or was it while Bilbo was yet a child?

-- Folwren

davem · 08-15-2007, 11:07 AM

Well, in the 1960 re-write the passage becomes "& even trying to sail in ships'. Bilbo's voice sank almost to a whisper 'To sail, sail away to the Other Shore." So, the later view was that they tried to sail in ships - which implies that they may have attempted to stow away but always got caught....

Folwren · 08-15-2007, 11:18 AM

Huh. That's possible. But what time would it have been?

Rumil · 08-18-2007, 08:38 AM

Hi all,

the Hobbit mariner Isengar is mentioned in the family trees in the Appendices. Isengar Took was in fact one of Bilbo's many uncles, his entry goes-

Quote:

Isengar 1262-1360 (said to have 'gone to sea' in his youth)

Now this is in Shire Reckoning so equates to 2862-2960 TA. One revealing entry in the 'Tale of the Years' is 2912, the year after the Fell Winter, when there were great floods in Minhiriath and Enedwaith and Tharbad was ruined and deserted. Therefore, if Isengar did sail from Tharbad, it was probably sometime between 2882 and 2911. Having survived his adventure, Isengar was still alive during the events of The Hobbit, and no doubt viewed his nephew in rather a different light after this!

Another potential mariner was Hildifons Took, one of Isengar's older brothers who was born in 1244 and 'went on a journey but never returned'. I wonder if Isengar originally went journeying to look for his missing brother?

Knight of Gondor · 08-21-2007, 04:06 PM

The Hobbit has such a different feel and flavor, as opposed to Lord of the Rings. Yet I like them both in their own different ways. The Hobbit is kind of like the warm bread before the main course.

If you're reading it aloud, I hope you know there's no other way to do it but with a British-accented narrator voice?

One thing that jumps to my mind when I read the final version you quoted, in the RotK Appendices, there is mention of the Shire sending hobbit-archers to the King's aid. (Pre-LotR events, I believe.) Some of the more educated opinions from annotated editions still point towards frolics off to the Grey Havens and beyond, though Valinor does not seem to me a place one "frolics" to.

Damrod · 08-21-2007, 04:50 PM

The "Other Side" quote seems pretty evocative of the Uttermost West, but I have a feeling that is why it was changed in the later editions. In the narrative of FotR Bilbo was described as having run off into the Blue as well. I really doubt in Tolkien's mind random hobbits could stow away to Valinor, but it is still fun to speculate.

William Cloud Hicklin · 08-22-2007, 11:12 AM

Ah, but in the Third Age the world was round and there were 'new lands like to the old lands'- analogs of the Americas. We know that Dunedainic (presumably Gondorian) mariners succeeded in 'setting a girdle about the earth,' Magellan- like. A Hobbit conceivably could have wound up on one of these trans-Belegaer Mannish ships, without any reference at all to Valinor (since the Straight Road was closed to all but Elvish vessels).

08-15-2007, 08:49 AM	#1
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	Supposing that Hobbits actually did stow away in ships, about what time/year did they do it, do you suppose? Was it before Bilbo's time, or was it while Bilbo was yet a child? -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

08-15-2007, 11:07 AM	#2
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Well, in the 1960 re-write the passage becomes "& even trying to sail in ships'. Bilbo's voice sank almost to a whisper 'To sail, sail away to the Other Shore." So, the later view was that they tried to sail in ships - which implies that they may have attempted to stow away but always got caught.... __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

08-15-2007, 11:18 AM	#3
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	Huh. That's possible. But what time would it have been? __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

08-21-2007, 04:06 PM	#5
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	The Hobbit has such a different feel and flavor, as opposed to Lord of the Rings. Yet I like them both in their own different ways. The Hobbit is kind of like the warm bread before the main course. If you're reading it aloud, I hope you know there's no other way to do it but with a British-accented narrator voice? One thing that jumps to my mind when I read the final version you quoted, in the RotK Appendices, there is mention of the Shire sending hobbit-archers to the King's aid. (Pre-LotR events, I believe.) Some of the more educated opinions from annotated editions still point towards frolics off to the Grey Havens and beyond, though Valinor does not seem to me a place one "frolics" to. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

08-21-2007, 04:50 PM	#6
Damrod Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	The "Other Side" quote seems pretty evocative of the Uttermost West, but I have a feeling that is why it was changed in the later editions. In the narrative of FotR Bilbo was described as having run off into the Blue as well. I really doubt in Tolkien's mind random hobbits could stow away to Valinor, but it is still fun to speculate. __________________ There's going to be a Beowulf movie?

08-22-2007, 11:12 AM	#7
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Ah, but in the Third Age the world was round and there were 'new lands like to the old lands'- analogs of the Americas. We know that Dunedainic (presumably Gondorian) mariners succeeded in 'setting a girdle about the earth,' Magellan- like. A Hobbit conceivably could have wound up on one of these trans-Belegaer Mannish ships, without any reference at all to Valinor (since the Straight Road was closed to all but Elvish vessels). __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

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