Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

By the way, Helen, I think you mean that Nimrodel's connection to Tharonwe would draw her EAST, not WEST.

Roger that. East.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I went back to read where things went awry from Helen's vision. It starts, as I expected, in one of my posts, #50. In it, Jorje has just joined Rugh when the unnamed rider (Mellonin/Avarien) crosses theirt path. Jorje gives chase, and the horse falls, and Mellonin falls, and then I have Saethryd's cottage just around the corner. This is where we would have to start repairing the rpg if we choose to.

I'm quite willing to make it somehow so that Saethryd lives near the Paths of the Dead.

How about she used to live there, but when they left it got boring so she moved a few miles w--- eh, EAST. MOre towards the pass that Avarien will use.

THen we could do something like this:
Rugh follows Roheryn & Mellonin for some odd reason for many many miles. Many miles. OUt of his forest, etc, He doesn't know why, really, except (I dunno) maybe the elf-woman calls him, or he thinks he heard some sort of call, or something. (Ideas please. Maybe Gwyll haunts him.) Jorje trots along. Avarien follows the trails toward the old pass she used before. (Ringlo? GIlraen? I believe GIlraen was the stream Nimrodel lingered by...)

THey get close to Saethryd's newish cottage: still very eeermy. JOrje THEN fritzes out, (Maybe Rugh does too) and scares Roheryn who dumps Mellonin. RIght next to the eeermy cottage.

There are holes in it but it's a start.

In order to achieve that, Rugh has to either be convinced to join the search party, or has to have some reason to follow it. It would have to be a pretty persuasive reason, because it would mean leaving the mountains and the woods and moving along the open road, or more slowly off the road. The change would have to come within post #50, #69 (another one of mine), and #70, which is Firefoot's post, following my lead, in which Rugh follows Jorje to Saethryd's cottage. Post #71 was vague on location and would not have to be changed. Post #72 would have to be changed,

DId I simplify this at all?

to include a rather longish journey toward Edoras, but that leads to a problem: how do the men know where to look for the women?

Also, #72 needs to explain the absence of Nethwador; but I have no idea why he's not with the group, plot-wise. Some help there?

I'll think about Nethwador for a bit.

They don't have to go all the way towrad Edoras; the pass towards RInglo would be an obvious choice for someone hurrying to Edhellond. Gilraen would also do since that's where Nimrodel originally lingered.

In terms of looking for the women, there's always basic tracking-- Ravion IS a ranger. Avarien is enough of a horsewoman to let her mount enjoy the turf, kindness to his feet & legs, etc. Let's say there has been enough rain, the hoofprints in the turf beside the road are deep and clear, and he doesn't have to work hard at all to follow them. Perhaps she could care less about being followed.

On the other hand, Mindolluin is much closer to the salt water and gulls than Erech is.

True. We don't HAVE to revisit Erech. As long as that's where she was, for a looooong time. I'm less tied to Erech than I am to Edhellond, but even that isn't set in , er, stone.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Helen

THen we could do something like this:
Rugh follows Roheryn & Mellonin for some odd reason for many many miles. Many miles. OUt of his forest, etc, He doesn't know why, really, except (I dunno) maybe the elf-woman calls him, or he thinks he heard some sort of call, or something. (Ideas please. Maybe Gwyll haunts him.) Jorje trots along. Avarien follows the trails toward the old pass she used before. (Ringlo? GIlraen? I believe GIlraen was the stream Nimrodel lingered by...)

THey get close to Saethryd's newish cottage: still very eeermy. JOrje THEN fritzes out, (Maybe Rugh does too) and scares Roheryn who dumps Mellonin. RIght next to the eeermy cottage.

There are holes in it but it's a start.

I'm good with it, but what does Firefoot think? Rugh is her character....

[mark12_30]

THe other thing we can do, is just correct our outlook of where Nimrodel is-- GIlraen, or somewhere toward Edhellond or Erech or whatever; that should be easier to fix.

Then explain why Saethryd moved so far w-- eh, East; let that be that; and then just keep going. I don't mind re-situating Saethryd into Gondor if we can just extricate Nimrodel-- put her somewhere further west or southwest than Mindolluin, and I'll be happy. I can't imagine Amroth missing her that completely, starting out in Minas Tirith and she was just over the back of the hill, ya know?

But Avarien can cross the mountains however she likes, and then travel (cough) West to find Nimrodel. That'll do fine. Let's not kill our newly found momentum with a lot of backtracking and editing. Move Nimrodel, explain why Saethryd moved to Gondor, & I'm happy.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, I'm cool with that too. Celuien has already said she's okay with it. So okay, let's keep the momentum going, and have Nimrodel (map 45 now) near the source of the Gilraen. That way she has been consistently about 3,000 feet up, from the Paths of the Dead to near the Gilraen. I'm cool with that. That gives everybody a little farther to travel, which is fine too.

[mark12_30]

Sweet!

So who is next?

[littlemanpoet]

Not me. Not tonight. I gotta go to bed. I'm dizzy from all these alternate possibilities.

[littlemanpoet]

Nuru, it is good to have you back writing again. That was moving! Rather than rusty and weak, I would say it was (emotionally) raw and strong. Good stuff.

[Celuien]

I'm terribly sorry that I haven't had time to write. Things have picked up yet again - I've already worked 40 hours this week and it's only Wednesday.

Unfortunately, this means that I won't be available to write for at least the next four weeks. On top of work, I have to find time for the important people in my offline life, which leaves no time to come here when I'm working 70+ hour weeks. And so, with apologies to everyone, I will have to withdraw from the story.

Best wishes to everyone, and I hope this doesn't cause too many problems.

[littlemanpoet]

I've had a too busy week, and tomorrow morning I fly to California. I may have computer time while there, I'll have to see. I'll try to post something here today.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Just chiming in to let you know I'm alive and keeping up with the story.

We'll miss you, Celuien, but better us to miss you than your offline people.

[littlemanpoet]

What needs to happen next? What is Roheryn waiting for? What do you want to happen next, Helen?

[Imladris]

Well, folks.

I shall go straight to the point. I have decided to withdraw from the RP. Aeron is not so important and I believe Gwyllion has played her part. Please feel free to do what you will with them.

[littlemanpoet]

The following is from a recent planning exchange between Helen and me, and we decided it's worth posting here for other active writers, especially Fea since it impacts her character plenty.

The fact of Indil/Angela complicates things for Raefindan/Imrazor rather mightily. That Fea chose that particular character was a rather powerful plot twist in its own right. Let me explain.

My theory on Roy Edwards, in terms of my own story, is that his journey into holiness results in his final disappearance from Ælde as he shifts into Eden/Paradise; at the moment of this shift, he detours into Middle Earth for this adventure of the Tapestry of Dreams. And so does Angela (which technically doesn't make sense because Indil is 7 years old and Angela has only been dead for 5 years, but we don't need to worry about that). But Roy has this amazing history he hadn't been aware of (which can remain localized to this rpg and need not enter my own story) such that he was Imrazor, and therefore partly Eldar, about to be reunited with Mithrellas! She will recognize him right off, and he will finally "get it", but Angela/Indil is right there too.

Roy will of course ask, "why?" And he will be tugged in two different directions, to what end I can't foresee yet.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ack.

My brain is melting. I should most probably wait for morning to think about this for so many reasons...

I knew that pulling your Angela into my Indil would offer plot complications for Raefindan/Imrazor, though I probably should have taken more into account your original plan for your original story. I also should admit that it's been a rather long while since I've perused your xanga account and read the work you've posted, so a lot of my ideas are pure whim with forgetfulness and lagging to account for.

I'm not sure... did I ever specify Indil's age? I know it was never solid in my mind, so I'm quite fine with negotiating it for continuity, however that might work.

Another thing, I never really meant Indil to be a main character. It just happened, the same way it tends to happen when I start writing with others. I probably should have foreseen. Since she now is, what happens to her becomes rather critical.

As a descendant of Mithrellas, she has every right to her dreams of the woman, and of Imrazor. As a human who has experienced trauma, I can explain away her nightmares and hallucinations, and the wall in her mind.

Her tie to Angela is what concerns me right now. Everything else I can shrug off and deal with, but Angela was originally yours, Elempi, and I don't want to do anything that messes with what you've got going on.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

She will recognize him right off, and he will finally "get it", but Angela/Indil is right there too.

Roy will of course ask, "why?" And he will be tugged in two different directions, to what end I can't foresee yet.

Would it simplify matters for we writers and add to our story (I tend to strive for both at once, if you follow) for Indil/internally-located-others to die before this Imrazor/Mithrellas reunion takes place? If so, how. If not, what do we do with the little girl.

I'll think about it more tomorrow...

Until then, sleep is so important to me...

[Firefoot]

What I'm hearing sounds fine, but I'm also a little lost - does all this involve moving forward, or going back and changing...?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

What I'm hearing sounds fine, but I'm also a little lost - does all this involve moving forward, or going back and changing...?

Good question. To me it means that what we've written can stay as it is. We only have to come up with a reasonable explanation of why Saethryd is way over by the Druadan forest instead of near the Paths of the Dead, as originally thought. The simplest solution I can think of is that, being a more or less a madwoman, she doesn't understand where she is. And now considering the minor role she will have, as a way-station for others, this seems sufficient.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

So who is next?

I vote Elempi with a Bad Elf post.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I vote Elempi with a Bad Elf post.

Fea, you're both Slinker and Stinker. I'll see what I can do.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Fea, you're both Slinker and Stinker.

Aww, you flatterer...

[mark12_30]

lmp said:

Okay, I'm cool with that too. Celuien has already said she's okay with it. So okay, let's keep the momentum going, and have Nimrodel (map 45 now) near the source of the Gilraen. That way she has been consistently about 3,000 feet up, from the Paths of the Dead to near the Gilraen. I'm cool with that. That gives everybody a little farther to travel, which is fine too.

Okay. Gilrain. Rechecking map.

If we want Gilrain then apparently we are south of the the beacon of... Minrimmon.

Erelas might have a nicer "pass" thru the white mountains, though. that would put us at the stream of Celos rather than Gilrain. But I guess it doesn't really matter. Either of those stream s show up on the map fairly far north into the mountains. And they would be little bubbly streams, far up into the mountains, with little pools and glades. So pick one. Gilrain, or Celos?

I was a bit stressed about the travel times; but we have been wandering and hunting, whereas the Rohirrim went from Dunharrow to Minas Tirith in four days hard riding. So we did some slow-and-steady, a few loopbacks. I guess its' okay.

Rougly fifty miles, or a midge more, from Erelas to Celos, or, from Minrimmon to Gilrain. maybe. How long have we been travelling from Saethryd's cottage? And how far up the mountainside was Saethryd's cottage? Let's say it was a fiull days' travel but not up to the treeline? I'll go look at what we've been doing since we left Saethryd's house.

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, Gwathlo was off the cuff memory, which is apparently poor. Looking at Map 45 in the Journeys of Frodo book, I have been writing under the working assumption that we're talking about the first pass west of Mindolluin so that the party comes down from the mountains between the Celos and the Sirith. The Vale would therefore be near the sources of Celos. Or maybe they could be beyond the Celos, near the Gilraen. We could simply narrate (tell rather than show) a couple days journey through the heights until that point, with little happening except movement. That doesn't hurt our rpg, I don't think. Whatever you want to do.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Sorry, Gwathlo was off the cuff memory, which is apparently poor. Looking at Map 45 in the Journeys of Frodo book, I have been writing under the working assumption that we're talking about the first pass west of Mindolluin so that the party comes down from the mountains between the Celos and the Sirith. The Vale would therefore be near the sources of Celos. Or maybe they could be beyond the Celos, near the Gilraen. We could simply narrate (tell rather than show) a couple days journey through the heights until that point, with little happening except movement. That doesn't hurt our rpg, I don't think. Whatever you want to do.

Whether we came south from Nardol to Tumladen, or from Erelas to Celos (I'd prefer the latter) I think we are okay-- as long as it's a LITTLE stream high up on the mountainsides, which pauses in a high glade to form a pool, and then goes downhill again, building strength as it goes tumbling downhill.

I think we're almost there.

[mark12_30]

Leaving Saethryd's house: post 119. Presumably we rode all day. (Somehow all those horses disappeaed by post 137 and Roheryn is alone. This just ain't right; When Roheryn goes down the mountainside all the rest should go with him.)

Nighttime when Mellonin rested under duress: post 133

daylight, at what sounds like a mountain pass: maybe over the ridge?-- : post 137 )GLad to notice that Roheryn went DOWN the mountainside)

This same post also has sundown; and there they find INdil.

Then we march downhill all night til dawn. And that's where we are now.

So .... if Saethryd's cottage was a day's journey up the mountains, call that eighteen miles on horseback. We left Saethryd's cottage: slow riding in deep snow: Call it Twelve miles. So we've gone thirty out of fifty when we meed up with Erebemlin &co. Rest one night. Hard march the next day: call it ten, turning the horses loose. So now we've gone forty.

THen we find INdil &co, and instead of resting (what are we, NUTS) we march all night again. Call it another ten miles or fifteen. So we'd be fifty or fifty-five miles total, most or all of the way down the other side. (Are we that athletic?)

Maybe we should reconsider. Elves desperate to go on; humans MUST rest. Maybe even Erebemlin has a moment of sanity and realizes that Mellondu's body can't handle the constant work, let alone the weakened Mellonin; and Erebemlin calls for a rest.

But they are almost to the end of the quest. NO, it doesn't make sense. THey HAVE to push on. Mayvbe the Rohirrim fall behind but the elves have to push down the mountain and find her. Nothing else makes sense.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

THey HAVE to push on. Mayvbe the Rohirrim fall behind but the elves have to push down the mountain and find her. Nothing else makes sense.

If the Elves can't wait, surely Roy and Indil/Angela and whoever else can't hang out in the background, arriving once everything's already happened. I think everybody who needs to show up needs to show up at the same time...