The Route of the Ring

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

So, let me get this straight: you suggest that Gandalf could have known (or, had some vague idea) what's going to happen to him? That he's gonna die? I don't know if this was discussed before, but it would maybe be enough for a stand-alone thread.

I think at most he may have had some kind of foreshadowing that he may meet his fate against an enemy like the Balrog, though he may not have known who or what he faced (he may have thought he may have to face Sauron for example).

What I do think is that Gandalf knew full well what lived in Moria and that he had a good feeling that if he passed that way he would have to face this foe. This is why, in my opinion, he was procrastinating both before and during the journey through the mines.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I think at most he may have had some kind of foreshadowing that he may meet his fate against an enemy like the Balrog, though he may not have known who or what he faced (he may have thought he may have to face Sauron for example).

What I do think is that Gandalf knew full well what lived in Moria and that he had a good feeling that if he passed that way he would have to face this foe. This is why, in my opinion, he was procrastinating both before and during the journey through the mines.

I agree with the first paragraph you wrote, but not with the second. Mainly because of the fact that Gandalf seems that he did not know what to expect in Moria, judging by these words:

"A Balrog," muttered Gandalf. "Now I understand." He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. "What an evil fortune! And I am already weary."

To me, it looks like he was saying: "Oh yeah, so this is it!" or maybe even "Oh no, old Bob, why him? He was terrible even back then before Eä!"
And before he says:

Then something came into the chamber - I felt it through the door, and the orcs themselves were afraid and fell silent. It laid hold of the iron ring, and then it perceived me and my spell. What it was I cannot guess, but I have never felt such a challenge.

This implies that both Gandalf and the Balrog were surprised, and it looks like from that very moment Gandalf was fully aware of the fact that "something" that is totally outside his experience is upon them. Though Gandalf even pondered the fact that the creature could have been buried along with Balin's tomb when the room collapsed.

So, my conclusion is that Gandalf knew about some danger, and that he even had a feeling - though not fully conscious - that something terrible awaits him in Moria. But at least until that moment quoted above he was not aware what exactly, and definitely did not think of Balrog (and according to how he acts, I believe he did not think about it at all).

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

What I do think is that Gandalf knew full well what lived in Moria and that he had a good feeling that if he passed that way he would have to face this foe. This is why, in my opinion, he was procrastinating both before and during the journey through the mines.

I agree with Legate. With him were not only hobbits that he loved, future rulers of the kindreds of Men, Elves and Dwarves, and the hoped-for king of Gondor - but also the One Ring that had to be destroyed, not lost or handed over to some other evil power. I see no reason why he would have led them on a collision course with the balrog, as any other route would have been better than this rather suicidal one. Furthermore, if he knew beforehand what was in Moria, he would have most likely did his best to make this knowledge as public as possible - as there was no confidentiality agreement between him and Sauron & co, quite the contrary, according to his mission.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Agree with the preceding- and would add that while Durin's Bane was some sort of subterranean nasty, there was no reason for the Wise to leap to the conclusion it was a Balrog. Moria is a place where "nameless things" gnaw the earth. Tolkien was careful to suggest that there was far more wonder and terror in Middle-earth than he put in his books, and it can't all be neatly pigonhoiled.

[CSteefel]

The Wise certainly knew there was some "problem" in Moria, as did the Dwarves. I don't recall if there were any survivors when Durin VI was slain by a Balrog in 1980 of the 3rd Age, but they refer to threat simply as "Durin's Bane", rather than mentioning a Balrog specifically. And in the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, Dain Ironfoot ventured inside the Gates of Moria after slaying Azog, it was said that:

Yet hardy and full of wrath as he was, it is said that when he came down from the Gate he looked grey in the face, as one who has felt great fear.

And then,

But we will not enter Khazad-dum. You will not enter Khazad-dum. Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria.

Presumably this is the sort of information that led Aragorn to counsel against entering Moria with the Fellowship of the Ring, even specifically referring to the threat to Gandalf:

It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!

But it also seems clear enough that nobody knew it was a Balrog, as the quotes in the posts above indicate.

[The Might]

I think this discussion is quite interesting, but not on topic, so maybe we should start a new thread for the Moria problem.
The real question is why was the High Pass so easily eliminated as an option.
Moria clearly was more dangerous and same goes for the Gap of Rohan probably. But was it better then Caradhras or not?
I personally say it was, because of the already mentioned groups and persons that would have certainly helped the Fellowship.

[CSteefel]

Interesting question. I always assumed that the High Pass was much farther north than they wanted to go, especially since they wanted to pass through Lorien (either Caradhras or Moria would get them this). But also, it seems that whatever the searches turned up, the raiding party of Orcs that freed Gollum may have influenced the thinking as well, since it was clear that the Enemy was moving almost at will in this general region. Perhaps a route down on the west side of the river, however, would have given better results...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I believe something was already mentioned before - like that the Company had to pick a route that was not as expected, and High Pass was probably one of the top possibilities. Since there were Mordor-uruks in Moria, I believe Sauron would see to it that even the goblins of Goblin-Gate were aroused and if it was needed, even though Eagles (one very important power that, I believe, was not mentioned) and Beornings were watching that region, one well-planned assault could do the main job and cripple or even eliminate the company. After passing to the other side, there were Wargs who could make quick raids deep into enemy territory. Even though "no warg dared to enter" Beorning lands, again, if it was well planned and with the advantage of wargs' speed the company could be surprised and people taken captive.

I believe Radagast could have played more important part here than it seems on first sight. I was playing with the idea a few posts earlier , but when I think of it, it seems quite important. But now I don't think about how Radagast could have helped the Fellowship if he WAS there, but what would mean if he indeed was NOT at Rhosgobel (and if Rhosgobel was by the southern end of Mirkwood). If there was nothing to watch the Enemy's movements on the eastern shore, he could have prepared a smaller troop of Orcs or other troops from Dol Guldur and cross Anduin on boats in the lands between the Old Forest road and Lórien. And that would be too much of a risk for the Company.

Last but not least, I believe that it was not much pleasant idea to carry the Ring through the Gladden Fields, even though it would be on the western shore this time. Also who knows how the area was passable (seems that it was quite swampy).