The Route of the Ring

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It appears from "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" that the only way to avoid the treacherous marshlands was to skirt the borders of Mirkwood, not far from Dol Guldur: bad idea.

The principal advantage to the Dimrill Stair was that it debouched almost directly into Lothlorien, and avoided a lengthy march through the narrow lands between Mirkwood and the Mountains. From Gandalf's perspective it made perfect sense to minimize the Company's exposure in enemy-infested territory for as long as possible; and, of course, if you're going to cross mountains in January farther south as a rule is safer. Elrond's scouts had used both northern passes in November/December, true: but they were Elves, and probably no more discommoded by snow and cold than Legolas was.

EDIT: replaced "Rivendell" with "Lorien", which was what I meant.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I think it's utter silliness to think that Gandalf actually wanted to go through Moria--he's not so coy that he would carefully manage things like that, he would have stated from the start "let's go that way." His choice of paths was pretty clear from the start: the Redhorn pass and, failing that, Moria as a second-best but not great option.

As to why he rejected to two more northerly routes, the reasons for that have already been stated here: too many goblins, too long close to Mirkwood, too close to Dol Guldur.

But I think there might be another interesting reason why he wanted to try Caradhras...it was the only route that they could have followed and then skipped going into Lothlorien. If they had been able to get through the mountain pass they would have been able to keep Bill (and thus the supplies he carried), come down the stairs (and thus had a much easier road somewhat further to the north and thus not quite directly into the forest) and they would certainly have been in better shape (not having had any to-be-expected encounters with goblins). They might then have held a course north and around Lothlorien, or maybe even snuck by on the western border between the forest and the mountains.

Why do this? Perhaps, just perhaps, Gandalf had some secret inkling of the danger Galadriel posed to the Fellowship. She darn near took the Ring from Frodo and she certainly consternated the rest...maybe Gandalf had it in the back of his head that if they could slip by her realm unnoticed, that might not be a bad thing....

Going through the Gladden Fields almost guarantees that you are going to spend a long time mucking about on the borders of Lothlorien and in the surrounds and thus attract more Elvish attention. Taking the Ring that close to both the Witch King and Galadriel, for that long, might not have been much to his liking....

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Interesting, Fordim, as I also thought that Gandalf could have planned to avoid Lothlórien. I don't know where I got that impression, but I had it for as long as I can remember and now that you said it it makes me wonder if there is not a hint somewhere that Gandalf did not want to go there as well? Concerning his reasons, I'd agree with the one you say - though I would say that maybe his reasoning was not as clear; he did not plainly say to himself: "Galadriel could be tempted by the Ring, let's avoid any contact with her", but rather sort of subconsciously said to himself: do not come near Lórien.

If that's true, of course. It is just a speculation. But if it were true, that's another good reason not to take the northern route.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Fordim Hedgethistle:

I think it's utter silliness to think that Gandalf actually wanted to go through Moria--he's not so coy that he would carefully manage things like that, he would have stated from the start "let's go that way."

But he did say almost exactly that:

"There is a way that we may attempt," said Gandalf. " I thought from the beginning, when first I considered this journey, that we should try it. But it is not a pleasant way, and I have not spoken of it to the Company before. Aragorn was against it, until the pass over the mountains had at least been tried."

So he conceded the argument to Aragorn's choice.

They might then have held a course north and around Lothlorien, or maybe even snuck by on the western border between the forest and the mountains.

I suspect you're right in possibly wanting to avoid Galadriel, all things considered, but I can't imagine he would pass Lothlorien on it's northern side and then turn south. They would have to cross Anduin and pass within sight of Dol Guldur. If it's visible from Cerin Amroth, it would certainly be visible fifty miles closer. It would also put the river at their back, cutting off any retreat if an attack came from there. If they were trying to avoid Lorien at all, they would likely have followed the edge of the mountains until they reached the northern border of Fangorn. They could then follow Limlight downstream to Anduin and so on to Mordor.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Except that, according to Aragorn, Gandalf had no certain plan *beyond Lorien;* moreover, messengers had gone to Celeborn from Elrond and the Fellowship was expected.

[CSteefel]

Yes, I have never seen any evidence that Gandalf had any desire to avoid Lothlorien. As Hickli said, they were expected. And when Gandalf was plucked off the mountain top by Gwahir, he was taken immediately to Lothlorien.

[Meriadoc1961]

I believe there is a statement made by Aragorn to the effect that "Gandalf clearly wished to enter Lorien." Aragorn felt completely safe and secure going to Lothlorien, and if there was a known danger in bringing the ring that close to Galadriel then either Elrond (Aragorn's foster father) or Gandalf (his mentor) or both would have confided this to him, it seems to me.

Gandalf knew that Moria was dangerous and filled with evil, but he did not consider it to be as bad a place as Dol Guldur.

Merry

[William Cloud Hicklin]

He was also I'm sure thinking of the fate of Thrain, who bore a lesser Ring too close to southern Mirkwood.......