I smell cheeze.

[sallkid]

Ok, first we get

What's this? A ranger caught of his guard?

which is cheesy enough and had me (who was expecting glorfindel) thinking "wow, elves are really effeminite" for about 5 seconds.
Then we get our first bit of elvish.

I'm Arwen, I'm here to help you

WHAT? what a stupid bit of cliche cheese for an introduction to elvish?
and the film lost all interest for me until they left rivendel.

[alatar]

Somebody must have thought that it would 'work,' as there's not a cell in the movie that's there at random. Could these scenes/words played well with the 'date' audience?

Are there some cheesy moments. Sure. I think some of it is part of PJ's personality.

[Folwren]

Many Cheesy lines have been stated here and I will not rehash all of them. But there is one in particular that is neither well executed nor humorous...instead it is merely ... bad ... and that is Aragorn's attrocious line

Let's hunt some orc.

I shudder to think of it and sometimes leave the room before he utters it.

-- Folwren

P.S. I don't care if the script says it's "Let us", Viggo says "Let's" and even if he did say "Let us hunt some orc" it still be just a jolly bad!

[Groin Redbeard]

For me the cheesiest part of the movies was in the Two Towers when Eomer was questioning the three hunters. Eomer had just insulted Gimli when Legolas chimed in and said:

You would die for your stroke fell!

For some reason I think Legolas has the worst acting parts in the movies, and they try and make up for it with his fighting scenes.

[Nerwen]

Er... you do know that's a book line, don't you?

In the case of Orlando Bloom, some of what seems to be bad scripting is actually bad acting.

I do think the script's by far the weakest part of the films, though.

[A Little Green]

Oooh what about the cheddar-scene where Aragorn starts speaking Danish to Arwen? Something like "min älskling", I just crack every time...

And then, of course, there is dear Orli with his
"They're taking the hobbits to Isengard!"
Surprise, surprise. A Mr. Obvious line for real.

"I feel a faint tingling in my fingers, I think it's affecting me!"
Oh please.

[Galendor]

During the Council of Elrond, Legolas had more of the same cheesy pointless lines. Boromir makes the argument:

"One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by evil that does not sleep, and the great Eye is ever watchful. The land is riddled with fire and ash, the very air you breath a poisonous fume. Not with ten thousand men could you do this, it is folly" (paraphrased).

Legolas's answer to this detailed and pertinent argument is to simply jump up and angrily cry out: "Have you heard nothing Elrond has said! We must take the ring to Mordor!!!"

Poor behavior for an elf.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Er... you do know that's a book line, don't you?

In the case of Orlando Bloom, some of what seems to be bad scripting is actually bad acting.

I do think the script's by far the weakest part of the films, though.

No, I didn't know that it's a book line, and your right it is crummy acting on Bloom's part.

[Sauron the White]

This seems to echo very familiar refrain on this site.

"If the movie scene did not work its Jacksons fault for not being more faithful to the book.

What? You mean he filmed it the exact way it was written by JRRT himself?

Okay then... its the actors ... yes thats it ... is gotta be the actors ... thats it ... it was poorly acted."

Bottom line: it is never, ever, ever the fault of the book, anything in the book, the author of the book, or even anything suggested at in the book. Remember Rule #1. Its Jacksons fault. Rule #2 - its the fault of somebody else in Jacksons movies.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Bottom line: it is never, ever, ever the fault of the book, anything in the book, the author of the book, or even anything suggested at in the book.

Think that that's because, when reading the books, one 'fills in' what is left out, and even modifies to some extent what is presented. When Aragorn speaks in the books, I do not hear Viggo but the voice of an old friend (who played Aragorn in our version of the movie). That version, had it ever been brought to fruition, would surely have had me banned from this site - even before the internet was invented - if not burned at a stake.

My imagine gets it (mostly) right in my mind, for me. Peter Jackson most likely thinks the same. He and I disagree; what of it?

StW, two notes: There exists the possibility that this site is exactly as you see it; filled to the brim with the anti-Jacksonites. If so, incorporate that obvious bit of data into your priors. In the future, then, to expect otherwise would like expecting to see this site start posting the weekly football scores. Also, having started rereading LotR yet again, I wonder if it would be helpful for you to think that, for some, this is a religious text, and anyone attempting to translate it can only open himself/herself to criticism from the true believers.

Please refer to footnote #2 regarding criticism of the Cecil B. DeMille rendition of the "Ten Commandments." More recently, Mel Gibson's version of the "The Passion of the Christ" was criticized as well. That recent Narnia movie had its rotten tomatoes as well.

To me the pattern is that you'll always find someone that doesn't like everything about a movie, and those like me that love to be picayune.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

This seems to echo very familiar refrain on this site.

"If the movie scene did not work its Jacksons fault for not being more faithful to the book.

What? You mean he filmed it the exact way it was written by JRRT himself?

Okay then... its the actors ... yes thats it ... is gotta be the actors ... thats it ... it was poorly acted."

Bottom line: it is never, ever, ever the fault of the book, anything in the book, the author of the book, or even anything suggested at in the book. Remember Rule #1. Its Jacksons fault. Rule #2 - its the fault of somebody else in Jacksons movies.

Excuse me, STW, I am not one of those who hate each and every aspect of the movies. Please don't put words into my mouth. In fact, I like the films overall, but I think they could have done with better scripting. On the other hand, some of the book dialogue had to be altered for the screen.

In this case, though, I happen to think it wasn't the fault of either the book or the screenplay, but of poor delivery by the actor. I've never seen Orlando Bloom turn in a good performance yet.

[Galendor]

Same here. I love to criticise the movies and Peter Jackson. I think the main reason for this though, is that he came so close to doing it right, and I think doing it right would have taken less work, not more. So it bothers me. Jackson should never, ever have intoduced basal humor into LOTR.

But don't get me wrong, overall I liked the movies and am glad they exist. The scenery and visuals were fantastic. Many of the characters/actors were superb, in my opinion. I loved movie Boromir, Aragorn, the hobbits, Eomer, and others, including Arwen, and I don't care if they differed in small ways from the books. "Ranger caught off his guard" doesn't bother me in the least, neither does "Give up the halfling, she-elf". But Legolas's lines were often bad, and Gimli was degraded. STW, I commend you for defending the movies, please don't stop.

[Sauron the White]

My post of yesterday was merely an effort to show the irony of the situation. This entire thread is to put on display the cheeze factor in the Jackson adaptions. So somebody criticizes lines of dialogue spoken in the films and it is pointed out to them that those lines are from the book. OOOOPS "Ya mean that Tolkien wrote cheezy lines? Could never happen."

Why does this occur here? Perhaps its the entire tone of the thread where people are expected - even encouraged and cheered on for taking easy potshots at the films displaying their prejudices and firm mindsets?

Regarding the performance by Bloom --- while it does not compare to more seasoned actors such as Holm, McKellan, Mortensen and others, it has its better moments throughout all three films. When you look at all the actors who portrayed Elves, it is onvious that they were asked to take on an air of distance and coldness as part of their personna. I do feel that people sometimes mistake that for poor acting on the part of Bloom or any other of the Elven actors.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

. When you look at all the actors who portrayed Elves, it is onvious that they were asked to take on an air of distance and coldness as part of their personna. I do feel that people sometimes mistake that for poor acting on the part of Bloom or any other of the Elven actors.

Problem is, Leonard Nimoy kinda nailed for all time the aloof and unemotional aspect of the pointy-eared crowd. Tolkien elves have the corner on ennui, though. Perhaps Mr. Greenjeans could have taken a cue from any number of French philosophes in order to provide a more nuanced performance?

[Macalaure]

When you look at all the actors who portrayed Elves, it is onvious that they were asked to take on an air of distance and coldness as part of their personna. I do feel that people sometimes mistake that for poor acting on the part of Bloom or any other of the Elven actors.

I would disagree. Yes, it surely is more difficult to act a convincing distant and cold person (although I would claim that Elves, while certainly distant, aren't really supposed to be cold) than a convincing passionate person. One only has to take a look at the performances of Csokas (Celeborn) or Parker (Haldir) and compare them to Urban. All of them are "limited" actors, but Urban did far better with the passionate Éomer.
Yet, Weaving made quite a good Elrond and Blanchett a very good Galadriel, in my opinion. It's certainly not fair to compare Bloom to those, but if you just take Liv Tyler, I would say that she does a significantly better job on Arwen than Bloom on Legolas - and with less screen time.

Even though I have rarely participated in the threads you participated in, Sauron, I have read a lot of your posts. You have often claimed that a lot of the members of the Downs take the Books too seriously. I'm not even saying this isn't the case, but don't you think you sometimes make the same mistake and take the Films too seriously?

[Sauron the White]

Macalaure ... far be it from me to take issue with the movies, but I am not a big fan of the performance of Hugo Weaving as Elrond. I do not think he fit the part nor was his performance anything better than average. I cannot judge Martin Csokas since he was on screen so briefly and was asked to do little more than just stand there and look serious. Parker did a good job but certainy had a lot more to do it with. I agree that Tyler was also fairly good.

Yes, I am guilty of taking the films too seriously. You are right. However, I did build up thirty years of anticipation in waiting for them to hit the screen so that may explain things a bit.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Macalaure ... far be it from me to take issue with the movies, but I am not a big fan of the performance of Hugo Weaving as Elrond. I do not think he fit the part nor was his performance anything better than average.

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you on that issue. The only Elf playing character that I thought wasn't above average was Legolas, and even he wasn't that terrible (just a little cheesy).

[Thenamir]

Wow, late to the thread, as usual.

I have to disagree with whoever nominated Boromir's line "They have a cave troll." That line was in one of the preview teaser scenes the week before the movie premiered, and I have to say that, say what you will about the rest of Sean Bean's portrayal, that line was delivered perfectly, just the right sarcasm and rolling of the eyes. I thought it was absolutely hysterical, a great moment of comic relief before the intensity of the battle in Balin's crypt.

My most-peevish moment of cheesiness was Pippin trying to persuade Treebeard to take them toward Isengard rather than away from it. "The closer we are to danger, the farther we are from harm." And what's worse, Treebeard actually bought it! He's the oldest and perhaps the wisest creature in Middle-Earth, and he gets foisted by a tween-aged hobbit! ARGH!

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

My post of yesterday was merely an effort to show the irony of the situation. This entire thread is to put on display the cheeze factor in the Jackson adaptions. So somebody criticizes lines of dialogue spoken in the films and it is pointed out to them that those lines are from the book. OOOOPS "Ya mean that Tolkien wrote cheezy lines? Could never happen."

Guess that it depends on your definition of 'cheese' and whether you've lived and breathed the books for 30+ years or just know someone who's read them. But I understand completely.

Why does this occur here? Perhaps its the entire tone of the thread where people are expected - even encouraged and cheered on for taking easy potshots at the films displaying their prejudices and firm mindsets?

Er...isn't that the idea of this thread? To note cheesiness in the movies? Just a note: This post here (and the one preceding it) by a notable Bookite actually disses Tolkien and his work. So there is criticism of the books and author as well, it would seem. One, I assume, could start a cheesiness thread in the books and see what one nets, as, as StW has pointed out, some members have shown that Tolkien's own words can be thought of as cheesy.

When you look at all the actors who portrayed Elves, it is onvious that they were asked to take on an air of distance and coldness as part of their personna.

Or was it because they were mostly fashion model types?

[Sauron the White]

Alatar... do you really think of Hugo Weaving and Craig Parker as fashion model types? Such a description may partially apply to some of the Elven women in the background who were there for eye candy but I do not feel it applies to the main Elven actors.

[Galendor]

I also really liked Boromir's line: "They have a cave troll." That was one of the most exciting moments for me in the films. Up to that point, we had not yet really seen Orcs or Trolls or such creatures. So when Boromir says that line, knowing from the books what was probably going to transpire next (fight at the door, mad dash to the bridge, Balrog!), it gave me a huge rush of excitement. Although perhaps not fully true to the book, Sean Bean was superb as Boromir and showed how a great actor can make a role. In my opinion, Viggo Mortensen was also a great Aragorn, but I already admired him from earlier very good performances in The Indian Runner, GI Jane (I liked it, what can I say?), and Carlitos Way.

But I thought the killing of the cave troll dragged on a bit too much, and got a little sad at the end with all the mournful bellowing after it got shot in the head, through the mouth, etc. I don't fully recall how the cave troll dies in the book, but if memory serves Frodo stabbed it in the foot with Sting.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Alatar... do you really think of Hugo Weaving and Craig Parker as fashion model types? Such a description may partially apply to some of the Elven women in the background who were there for eye candy but I do not feel it applies to the main Elven actors.

Agreed, though Weaving should have modeled his own line of sunglasses.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Macalaure ... far be it from me to take issue with the movies, but I am not a big fan of the performance of Hugo Weaving as Elrond. I do not think he fit the part nor was his performance anything better than average.

I disagree, STW– I thought he was good (although he was basically playing a different character from the one in the book).

And I still don't think Orlando Bloom is much chop as an actor. Other people had cheezy lines and more-or-less got away with them.

On the other hand, he looked the part more than Weaving, who must be a contender for World's Ugliest Elf.

[Sauron the White]

Nerwen - two things about Weaving as Elrond that I was not enthralled with. The first was his appearance. I simply felt that he did not look anything like an Elf let alone someone so high and mighty. I will admit that I had no problem with him as Prologue Elrond in full battle gear and thought he looked great in that. It was the rest of it that just did not set well with me. And I have never liked how Weaving - as an actor in almost any role - delivers his lines. Its as if he was in some Cecil B. DeMille movie from the Forties and he is making pronoucements from the mountain top. His delivery of the line to Merry and Pippin at the Council about them not being able to stay away when they are not summoned is especially grating to my ears. In the prologue he is spared the delivery of any lengthy pronoucements.

In fact, I would say of all the twenty major actors in the film, I probably am least satisfied with Weaving and his performance.