Gandalf's powers

[cesar.ewok]

Yet Ulmo turned Elwing into a bird...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by cesar.ewok

Yet Ulmo turned Elwing into a bird...

Ulmo was not Gandalf. And Elwing was not Samwise in the circumstances. Gandalf was an Istar, i.e. Maia in limited incarnate form with limited powers, Ulmo was a Vala and one of the Aratar, and Elwing was turned to a bird to be saved (and it had probably something to do with what she represented, i.e. the unity of the two races). I would hardly see anything comparable in here

[cesar.ewok]

I was talking about the possibility of an Ainu turning an Incarnate into another creature, not of what the Incarnate meant. As we don't know at any rate the power of Gandalf (and we know that Lúthien, for instance, did amazing things with her power; and that Elwing, her offspring, devised wings for herself), we can't say for sure whether he could do that.

There's even the theory of Radagast granting Beorn the ability of shape shifting (though I don't agree with this, believing that he was born with that power).

However, I think is had more to do with the "awareness" of the spirit. Otherwise Morgoth and his agents would have only to turn their enemies into ants. As Elwing was about to die, I think this was possible.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by cesar.ewok

I was talking about the possibility of an Ainu turning an Incarnate into another creature, not of what the Incarnate meant. As we don't know at any rate the power of Gandalf (and we know that Lúthien, for instance, did amazing things with her power; and that Elwing, her offspring, devised wings for herself), we can't say for sure whether he could do that.

In my opinion, Gandalf felt safe enough to accept Frodo's words/say what he said himself, precisely because it was outside of his powers - which would make his words empty threats, used simply to convey a point. His words were, to him and the others, a paper tiger - otherwise, it would be a stark violation of his standing orders as an istar:

Originally Posted by Tale of Years, Appendix B, RotK

It was afterwards said that they came out of the Far West and were messengers sent to contest the power of Sauron, and to unite all those who had the will to resist him; but they were forbidden to match his power with power, or to seek to dominate Elves or Men by force and fear.

Originally Posted by The Istari, UT

[The Istari] were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt

[cesar.ewok]

I was talking about the possibility of Gandalf being able to do that, regardless his forbiddance to act so.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by cesar.ewok

I was talking about the possibility of Gandalf being able to do that, regardless his forbiddance to act so.

Yes, I am aware of that . However, if he truly was capable, he would try to downplay Frodo's words, not underline them with a threat of his own - considering the strings attached to his mission.

To me, this is the simplest explanation - the alternatives being that he was able and: either willingly disregarded his commands (highly unlikely) or he played hide-and-seek, betting that the others would take his words as a joke, even though he was a known wizard, actually capable.