I smell cheeze.

[Sauron the White]

My post of yesterday was merely an effort to show the irony of the situation. This entire thread is to put on display the cheeze factor in the Jackson adaptions. So somebody criticizes lines of dialogue spoken in the films and it is pointed out to them that those lines are from the book. OOOOPS "Ya mean that Tolkien wrote cheezy lines? Could never happen."

Why does this occur here? Perhaps its the entire tone of the thread where people are expected - even encouraged and cheered on for taking easy potshots at the films displaying their prejudices and firm mindsets?

Regarding the performance by Bloom --- while it does not compare to more seasoned actors such as Holm, McKellan, Mortensen and others, it has its better moments throughout all three films. When you look at all the actors who portrayed Elves, it is onvious that they were asked to take on an air of distance and coldness as part of their personna. I do feel that people sometimes mistake that for poor acting on the part of Bloom or any other of the Elven actors.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

. When you look at all the actors who portrayed Elves, it is onvious that they were asked to take on an air of distance and coldness as part of their personna. I do feel that people sometimes mistake that for poor acting on the part of Bloom or any other of the Elven actors.

Problem is, Leonard Nimoy kinda nailed for all time the aloof and unemotional aspect of the pointy-eared crowd. Tolkien elves have the corner on ennui, though. Perhaps Mr. Greenjeans could have taken a cue from any number of French philosophes in order to provide a more nuanced performance?

[Macalaure]

When you look at all the actors who portrayed Elves, it is onvious that they were asked to take on an air of distance and coldness as part of their personna. I do feel that people sometimes mistake that for poor acting on the part of Bloom or any other of the Elven actors.

I would disagree. Yes, it surely is more difficult to act a convincing distant and cold person (although I would claim that Elves, while certainly distant, aren't really supposed to be cold) than a convincing passionate person. One only has to take a look at the performances of Csokas (Celeborn) or Parker (Haldir) and compare them to Urban. All of them are "limited" actors, but Urban did far better with the passionate Éomer.
Yet, Weaving made quite a good Elrond and Blanchett a very good Galadriel, in my opinion. It's certainly not fair to compare Bloom to those, but if you just take Liv Tyler, I would say that she does a significantly better job on Arwen than Bloom on Legolas - and with less screen time.

Even though I have rarely participated in the threads you participated in, Sauron, I have read a lot of your posts. You have often claimed that a lot of the members of the Downs take the Books too seriously. I'm not even saying this isn't the case, but don't you think you sometimes make the same mistake and take the Films too seriously?

[Sauron the White]

Macalaure ... far be it from me to take issue with the movies, but I am not a big fan of the performance of Hugo Weaving as Elrond. I do not think he fit the part nor was his performance anything better than average. I cannot judge Martin Csokas since he was on screen so briefly and was asked to do little more than just stand there and look serious. Parker did a good job but certainy had a lot more to do it with. I agree that Tyler was also fairly good.

Yes, I am guilty of taking the films too seriously. You are right. However, I did build up thirty years of anticipation in waiting for them to hit the screen so that may explain things a bit.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Macalaure ... far be it from me to take issue with the movies, but I am not a big fan of the performance of Hugo Weaving as Elrond. I do not think he fit the part nor was his performance anything better than average.

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you on that issue. The only Elf playing character that I thought wasn't above average was Legolas, and even he wasn't that terrible (just a little cheesy).

[Thenamir]

Wow, late to the thread, as usual.

I have to disagree with whoever nominated Boromir's line "They have a cave troll." That line was in one of the preview teaser scenes the week before the movie premiered, and I have to say that, say what you will about the rest of Sean Bean's portrayal, that line was delivered perfectly, just the right sarcasm and rolling of the eyes. I thought it was absolutely hysterical, a great moment of comic relief before the intensity of the battle in Balin's crypt.

My most-peevish moment of cheesiness was Pippin trying to persuade Treebeard to take them toward Isengard rather than away from it. "The closer we are to danger, the farther we are from harm." And what's worse, Treebeard actually bought it! He's the oldest and perhaps the wisest creature in Middle-Earth, and he gets foisted by a tween-aged hobbit! ARGH!

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

My post of yesterday was merely an effort to show the irony of the situation. This entire thread is to put on display the cheeze factor in the Jackson adaptions. So somebody criticizes lines of dialogue spoken in the films and it is pointed out to them that those lines are from the book. OOOOPS "Ya mean that Tolkien wrote cheezy lines? Could never happen."

Guess that it depends on your definition of 'cheese' and whether you've lived and breathed the books for 30+ years or just know someone who's read them. But I understand completely.

Why does this occur here? Perhaps its the entire tone of the thread where people are expected - even encouraged and cheered on for taking easy potshots at the films displaying their prejudices and firm mindsets?

Er...isn't that the idea of this thread? To note cheesiness in the movies? Just a note: This post here (and the one preceding it) by a notable Bookite actually disses Tolkien and his work. So there is criticism of the books and author as well, it would seem. One, I assume, could start a cheesiness thread in the books and see what one nets, as, as StW has pointed out, some members have shown that Tolkien's own words can be thought of as cheesy.

When you look at all the actors who portrayed Elves, it is onvious that they were asked to take on an air of distance and coldness as part of their personna.

Or was it because they were mostly fashion model types?

[Sauron the White]

Alatar... do you really think of Hugo Weaving and Craig Parker as fashion model types? Such a description may partially apply to some of the Elven women in the background who were there for eye candy but I do not feel it applies to the main Elven actors.

[Galendor]

I also really liked Boromir's line: "They have a cave troll." That was one of the most exciting moments for me in the films. Up to that point, we had not yet really seen Orcs or Trolls or such creatures. So when Boromir says that line, knowing from the books what was probably going to transpire next (fight at the door, mad dash to the bridge, Balrog!), it gave me a huge rush of excitement. Although perhaps not fully true to the book, Sean Bean was superb as Boromir and showed how a great actor can make a role. In my opinion, Viggo Mortensen was also a great Aragorn, but I already admired him from earlier very good performances in The Indian Runner, GI Jane (I liked it, what can I say?), and Carlitos Way.

But I thought the killing of the cave troll dragged on a bit too much, and got a little sad at the end with all the mournful bellowing after it got shot in the head, through the mouth, etc. I don't fully recall how the cave troll dies in the book, but if memory serves Frodo stabbed it in the foot with Sting.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Alatar... do you really think of Hugo Weaving and Craig Parker as fashion model types? Such a description may partially apply to some of the Elven women in the background who were there for eye candy but I do not feel it applies to the main Elven actors.

Agreed, though Weaving should have modeled his own line of sunglasses.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Macalaure ... far be it from me to take issue with the movies, but I am not a big fan of the performance of Hugo Weaving as Elrond. I do not think he fit the part nor was his performance anything better than average.

I disagree, STW– I thought he was good (although he was basically playing a different character from the one in the book).

And I still don't think Orlando Bloom is much chop as an actor. Other people had cheezy lines and more-or-less got away with them.

On the other hand, he looked the part more than Weaving, who must be a contender for World's Ugliest Elf.

[Sauron the White]

Nerwen - two things about Weaving as Elrond that I was not enthralled with. The first was his appearance. I simply felt that he did not look anything like an Elf let alone someone so high and mighty. I will admit that I had no problem with him as Prologue Elrond in full battle gear and thought he looked great in that. It was the rest of it that just did not set well with me. And I have never liked how Weaving - as an actor in almost any role - delivers his lines. Its as if he was in some Cecil B. DeMille movie from the Forties and he is making pronoucements from the mountain top. His delivery of the line to Merry and Pippin at the Council about them not being able to stay away when they are not summoned is especially grating to my ears. In the prologue he is spared the delivery of any lengthy pronoucements.

In fact, I would say of all the twenty major actors in the film, I probably am least satisfied with Weaving and his performance.