Who, in The Lord of the Rings, was the most effective liar? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

CSteefel · 11-30-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

-Sauron also fooled Aragorn into believing that Arwen was dead.

What about the Mouth of Sauron? It is my belief that Sauron could speak through this person, and it is plain to see that the Mouth of Sauron fooled all but Aragorn at the Black Gate.

I think both of these are only in the movie...

Galendor · 12-02-2007, 07:43 PM

For me, its definitely between Sauron and Saruman. Plenty of great evidence for both has been given. But, even after his defeat and the fall of Sauron, Saruman didn't miss a beat and went straight to the Shire, were he continued to advance his own agenda through deceit and manipulation. So my vote goes to Saruman as the most effective liar.

MatthewM · 12-03-2007, 12:28 AM

Why is Boromir even in this poll? Why is Denethor? Come on, they are not bad guys. Their situations are completely different, with the Ring and all. I could *maybe* see you making a case of Denethor, but definitely not Boromir. That's why nobody has voted for him. Because he does not belong there as a choice, in my opinion.

Anyway, I voted for Gollum. His lie did help save Middle earth, after all...

Boromir88 · 12-03-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Why is Boromir even in this poll? Why is Denethor? Come on, they are not bad guys.~MatthewM

I think it follows along the lines of what Nogrod said...

Quote:

It can't be Boromir for his deception was short-lived and dubious in the first place as he regretted it and tried to heal the damage he had done. He was indeed effective to the good side in the end.

And you don't have to be a 'bad guy' to be a good liar. I tossed out the idea that Gandalf/Aragorn were just as effective liars as anyone on that list because they deceived Sauron into believing they were going to use the Ring to overthrow him. But instead, they snuck two hobbits into Mordor.

And I believe Bethberry said Tolkien was the master liar.

Lush · 12-04-2007, 05:32 AM

For me, it came down to a tie between Sauron and Wormtongue. I ended up choosing Wormtongue. For an embittered little mortal dude, he sure did accomplish a lot.

Eönwë · 12-04-2007, 08:26 AM

I vote Saron because he made all the Numenoreans evil and take part in human sacrifice. He also makes the go to Aman and die, as well as making them worship Melko (Morgoth). Not to mention the things he did in the LOTR. Oh, and he created the dwarven rings, as well as the ones for men, and they both at first accepted them.

Raynor · 12-04-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I vote Saron because he made all the Numenoreans evil and take part in human sacrifice.

Not all the Numenoreans turned evil - some of them remained faithful and due to them the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor were later established after the Akallabeth.

Quote:

he created the dwarven rings, as well as the ones for men, and they both at first accepted them.

The elves made all the power rings, admittedly under his guidance. As for the rings being accepted, as said before: it is not a fact that he was the one who convinced them in person.

Quempel · 12-11-2007, 03:34 PM

Sauron is my vote from the list.

But, my real guess is Melkor. He made Sauron what he was. I have always equated Melkor as the Devil and Sauron as his head demon. Sauron after all was only fulfilling Melkor's wish.

Rhod the Red · 11-29-2010, 03:25 AM

Wormtongue. Not everyone can hoodwink a Head of State

Almesiva Moonshadow · 12-06-2010, 03:02 AM

Can anyone tell me why are Boromir and Denethor on this pole???
I dont seem to recall either one of them telling a single lie during the book...
...or am I wrong?

View Poll Results: Who, in the Lord of the Rings, was the most effective liar?
Boromir	0	0%
Denethor	1	1.92%
Gollum	2	3.85%
Saruman	14	26.92%
Sauron	22	42.31%
Wormtongue	13	25.00%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

12-02-2007, 07:43 PM	#2
Galendor Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Mirkwood, NC Posts: 66	For me, its definitely between Sauron and Saruman. Plenty of great evidence for both has been given. But, even after his defeat and the fall of Sauron, Saruman didn't miss a beat and went straight to the Shire, were he continued to advance his own agenda through deceit and manipulation. So my vote goes to Saruman as the most effective liar. __________________ Time is the mind, the hand that makes (fingers on harpstrings, hero-swords, the acts, the eyes of queens).

12-03-2007, 12:28 AM	#3
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	Why is Boromir even in this poll? Why is Denethor? Come on, they are not bad guys. Their situations are completely different, with the Ring and all. I could maybe see you making a case of Denethor, but definitely not Boromir. That's why nobody has voted for him. Because he does not belong there as a choice, in my opinion. Anyway, I voted for Gollum. His lie did help save Middle earth, after all... __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

12-04-2007, 05:32 AM	#5
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	For me, it came down to a tie between Sauron and Wormtongue. I ended up choosing Wormtongue. For an embittered little mortal dude, he sure did accomplish a lot. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

12-04-2007, 08:26 AM	#6
Eönwë Flame Imperishable Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Right here Posts: 3,928	I vote Saron because he made all the Numenoreans evil and take part in human sacrifice. He also makes the go to Aman and die, as well as making them worship Melko (Morgoth). Not to mention the things he did in the LOTR. Oh, and he created the dwarven rings, as well as the ones for men, and they both at first accepted them. __________________ Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place

12-11-2007, 03:34 PM	#8
Quempel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In a flower Posts: 97	Sauron is my vote from the list. But, my real guess is Melkor. He made Sauron what he was. I have always equated Melkor as the Devil and Sauron as his head demon. Sauron after all was only fulfilling Melkor's wish. __________________ Lurking behind Uncle Fester

11-29-2010, 03:25 AM	#9
Rhod the Red Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 257	Wormtongue. Not everyone can hoodwink a Head of State __________________ Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia

12-06-2010, 03:02 AM	#10
Almesiva Moonshadow Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Serbia Posts: 34	Can anyone tell me why are Boromir and Denethor on this pole??? I dont seem to recall either one of them telling a single lie during the book... ...or am I wrong? __________________ "...Aim for the moon,if you miss,you may hit a star..." -W.Clement Stone-

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