WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Volo

Because Legate and Lommy agree with me, I don't think that they are Wolves. If we are wrong, I'll look at them more closely.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Agree about what?

About who are suspicious.

Originally Posted by Sally

you left me off your list love.

Yes, dear, I reserved a special place above the list for you, a place called "suspicious".

Originally Posted by Sally

Because A: why the heck would I vote him both days so vigorously, unless I am either incredibly stupid or incredibly clever, B: the same for Morm's actions today in a way, voting someone who finds me suspicious is either ballsy or idiotic, C: okay I can't think of a C right now but that's alright I'm sure someone else will analyze this post in a bit anyway.

I like the "incredibly clever" part. The only thing here than makes me suspect you less is than you're a newbie, but Wolves frequently vote eachother, otherwise finding them would be much easier as we would know outright who can't be a Wolf after we find who was a Wolf. Since morm was in no real danger of being lynched, it was safe to vote him to cover tracks. And if he is in real danger of being lynched, it's easy to hide among the votes as your vote can't save him anyway. (Umm... Why am I explaining these things anyway... I find you suspicious and if you're a Wolf you probably understand it anyway.)

Originally Posted by Lommy

Somehow, I don't like the fact that Legate is so sure of my innocence. It makes me feel like he had realised I tend to trust those who trust me and is using it to achieve his own ends. Or something like that. The point is, it makes him feel slightly suspicious to me.

I find it funny that you would say something like this as you have pretty much trusted me the whole game and agreed with nearly everything I have said, or at least told me as much. And why doesn't my trust for you and Legate turn on such alarms? The thought that you have noticed that I trust people who agree with me (Heck, I even said so myself in the preveous post.) and used it against us comes into my mind.
But I am not going to vote you or Legate toDay. I'm very sure that tomorrow will make these things much clearer.

And another note about Lommy & Legate: Even if I'm wrong in trusting them, I find it extremely improbable that both of them are Wolves, there is too much agreement between them, even if their lists aren't completely alike. And since there is no Cobbler in this game, I'm sure than at least one of them does deserve our trust.


I'll leave this at this and move to look into Kath's, Brinniel's and Mac's (Since you asked for it... ) souls or something like that.

[Kath]

My apologies, but it's going to have to be an early vote again. My suspicions remain the same as they did earlier, and for the same reasons, but I do want to mention that my suspicion of Brinniel has increased after the deluge of posts she made earlier. It's reminiscent of a wolvish tactic I once used so it worries me. However, my main suspicion remains with:

++A LITTLE GREEN

[Macalaure]

I finished reading properly until my first post today. Here's what I found so far.

This still seems staged for me:
Lommy carefully accuses morm to have killed Valier, then he mocks it. Then Lommy continues along the lines of a frame. Then both slowly back down from their mutual suspicion. If Lommy and morm are wolves, this would make sense to me. They feared Valier was the seer, and now they try to keep people away from going after morm by making it clear, by a weak case and ridicule, that morm is no wolf and is being framed by them. I might be over-interpreting, but this is how it appears to me.

By the way, if morm is evil, it's not a double-bluff: it's a semi-double-bluff, because in the first place he would have expected to sacrifice himself over a killed seer who dreamt of him, and is now using plan B.

Aganzir and Lily (*is inspired by Fea's Lil*) talk about the loud/silent arguments of Valier in the beginning. I find this suspicious as it's too obvious this had nothing to do with her death.

Farael is a little too aggressive for my liking, but that's him. He feels genuine, though. A lot of people quickly took up his suspicion of Rikae. These reactions are worth examining tomorrow, when we know her role.

Originally Posted by Volo

Looking at yesterDay, I'm quite sure that Lommy has been Seered upon.

explain?

[Thinlómien]

Sally's post #218 is something all too wolvish. I mean, if she knew she herself was innocent, she wouldn't surely speculate that way.

Originally Posted by TM

Hmmm, now this seems to be an explanation of why you both trust each other. Question is why you felt then need to explain this, is there something that must be hidden, or do you really suspect him?

He said he trusts you in #153, and yet in #187 when you made the list of people you see him as one of the innocents. Why is it that he trusting became suspicious now and not earlier? Does it have anything to do with me feeling bad about both of you?

Now, I'm not sure, but after this post my suspicion of you seems to make more sense.

There's nothing that must be hidden, from my part at least. I don't actually suspect him, since he seems mostly innocent to me, but that is just a suspicious streak in his behaviour I thought I'd like to mention. As to why it became suspicious only now, well, it only started to feel a bit odd after he had made that zone-post of his and named me and some other people as probably innocent with no further explanations. So, it doesn't have anything to do with your suspicions, sorry.

Originally Posted by Volo

I find it funny that you would say something like this as you have pretty much trusted me the whole game and agreed with nearly everything I have said, or at least told me as much. And why doesn't my trust for you and Legate turn on such alarms? The thought that you have noticed that I trust people who agree with me (Heck, I even said so myself in the preveous post.) and used it against us comes into my mind.

I know why I've said I think you innocent and agree with you almost all the time, but I have no way of knowing why does Legate say he thinks me innocent. I mean, I know I say I think you innocent because I genuinely think so, but I can't know if Legate says he thinks me innocent because he really does so or because he tries to make me trust him or something else suspicious. As to your trust of me and Legate, well, it simply hasn't caught my eye the way Legate's trust for me did. Maybe you're just a subtler wolf than Legate is...

Lastly, a few words about Little Green. She seems like a class example of a newbie wolf. She goes along with the popular suspects and sticks to the one suspicion she's had during all the game. She also seems to pretend no one suspects her at all and doesn't react at all to the accusations against her. That's exactly what I did in my second game ever when I was evil. It is a very common wolvish mistake, one that especially inexperienced wolves tend to do. So (Aganzir, you may gasp now, since you've been waiting for this ), Little Green, I give you a piece of advice, if you're innocent, start defending yourself against the false accusations. You're one of my top suspects right now and I will most probably vote you. You're doing no good to my opinion of you by discounting all the accusations towards you. I give you a chance to make me change my opinion of you: defend yourself in a credible manner and if I'm convinced, I will refrain from voting you (at least toDay). A credible defense may change other people's views of you as well.

EDIT: xed with Mac

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Alright, some views on the current situation.

I see many people speak about Lilla Greenhand here as being suspicious. Well, for myself I can say she seemed more or less genuine to me at the beginning and that this image is beginning to dissolve slowly, as I said before. The opinions she holds in her #223 could make me suspect her more: given her overall behavior, she seems to follow certain long-time suspects, and she holds to them whatever the case. Also, she seems to defend morm, which, in the case he were a were a were a were wolf (sorry, that was the keyboard), could point to her as a pack-mate, and vice versa. But the main thing are the long-time suspects, as I said - bite and hold, maybe once the bit of flesh will fall off. That moves her to the orange zone for me.

However, what strikes me as terribly wolfish was Sally's post:

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

P.S. I just realized that Morm voted Volo. So chain of events is Sally votes Morm, Volo finds Sally suspicious for picking on Morm, Morm votes Volo. Unless my logic is hugely flawed, that means that it is unlikely that both of us are wolves, Morm and I that is. Because A: why the heck would I vote him both days so vigorously, unless I am either incredibly stupid or incredibly clever, B: the same for Morm's actions today in a way, voting someone who finds me suspicious is either ballsy or idiotic, C: okay I can't think of a C right now but that's alright I'm sure someone else will analyze this post in a bit anyway.

And even the rest of it. I don't see that she would be as much attacked upon, but look what she does! "It is unlikely that both of US are wolves" - what is that supposed to mean? I would understand if she said that about someone else. I would understand if she said that at the point when, let's say, morm revealed a wolf and she were accused. But this? Why? How? What?
I simply don't get this comment. I said before what I thought about her posting, and I tried to be reserved because I had problems with not being suspicious on her because of her style even if she were innocent. But I cannot resist now and switch her into the red alert zone. Unless there appears another candidate in my red zone, or unless there is any voting crisis and threat upon someone whom I consider innocent, I'll probably vote her toDay.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy

[Aganzir]

++ Greenie

[Macalaure]

Brinniel looks very helpful with her analyses. (20+ pages? *bows*) What I usually like about analyses, is that they often tell you more about the analyser than about the analysed. Unfortunately, most of Brinn's conclusions are lacking a bit decisiveness, which make them less helpful in this regard. I'm wary.

Some good points have been raised about Sally.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

The way Menel asked Rikae to elaborate what she found suspicious with Mac looked to me like he was asking it on behalf of a fellow wolf so that Mac would be able to fix his behaviour without being noticed.

I don't take advice on these matters. As can be seen in the last game, if I'm a badly playing wolf, I want to be a seriously badly playing wolf.

And finally: after reading what he said today, I feel better about Legate. But the Eye is still on him.


After about two straight hours of werewolf reading, I think I need to rest my brain for a while now. I'll be back soon and think about who I will vote for.

[A Little Green]

Well, what can I say?

Originally Posted by Legate

given her overall behavior, she seems to follow certain long-time suspects, and she holds to them whatever the case. Also, she seems to defend morm, which, in the case he were a were a were a were wolf (sorry, that was the keyboard), could point to her as a pack-mate, and vice versa.

Follow certain long-time suspects? Hmmm... talking about Lommy, right? Well, that might be due her behaviour staying pretty much the same all the time. Why change my opinion of her if she does not change?
Defend morm? I don't see that. I've said he looks innocent, even a couple of times, but surely if we were "pack-mates" I wouldn't do anyhting that obvious unless it was absolutely vital.

What else?

Originally Posted by Lommy

This might be a bit ridiculous point, but I think Little G's way of using the -smiley is very wolvish. I really can't explain it, but somehow it always makes me shiver when she uses it. I think she uses it in a slightly apologetic way or to emphasise she's no threat to anyone.

Well, you're right about that being a ridiculous point at least I'm afraid I can't make a valid defence for my use of smileys, sorry.

The same goes for my giving overall wolvish vibes. What comes to asking way too much, that might be due to a rather peculiar aim of trying to understand people's points before making conclusions on them...

Being too friendly, eh? Well, I'm afraid I can't really defend myself in that either. Is it overly weird and suspicious to be friendly?

Having no opinion of my own? Well, I admit I have been wary of accusing people, mainly because nothing that has been said in here has convinced me enough to have me believe someone actually guilty. I would feel weird to start accusing people before being certain of their guilt. I suppose I should be content with mere vague suspicions, then. However, I'd feel like being very unfair if I started hot-headedly accusing people based on some gut-feelings or the words X used to say he'll be off for the rest of the day...

PS. No laughing smileys in this one. Content now, Lommy?

EDIT: x-ed with Mac, The Might and Volo

[The Might]

Just to keep the votes in mind both for myself and for you:

A Little Green -3 (Feanor, Kath, Aganzir)
Volo - 2 (Shasta, mormegil)
mormegil - 1 (Sally)

Which now makes me quite confused. Because I too thought that mormegil was a bit fishy, but as Sally seems quite wolvish after that confusing post I am not sure what to believe, since she did vote for him.

This definitely makes me think of morm as a probably innocent one, then again I hope this won't prove to be a mistake.

One hour to the deadline left, I'm off to learn some physics, but I'll be back at a quarter to ten approximatively to see what the final discussion will bring. (quite excited, as it's the first one I take part in)

[Farael]

Darn it, I just lost a really long post I was working on... guess we'll have to re-write it.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

P.S. I just realized that Morm voted Volo. So chain of events is Sally votes Morm, Volo finds Sally suspicious for picking on Morm, Morm votes Volo. Unless my logic is hugely flawed, that means that it is unlikely that both of us are wolves, Morm and I that is. Because A: why the heck would I vote him both days so vigorously, unless I am either incredibly stupid or incredibly clever, B: the same for Morm's actions today in a way, voting someone who finds me suspicious is either ballsy or idiotic, C: okay I can't think of a C right now but that's alright I'm sure someone else will analyze this post in a bit anyway.

I'm making no comment on my potential wolfishness really because it's not worth my time to be honest. Just pointing out that if one of us is lynched or killed and revealed as a wolf, the other is most likely not a wolf. (Which is me by the way the non-wolf me yes me i'm an ordo! sorry quick plug for kicks and giggles) Just for reference. (That sounds hugely suspicious but I'm tired so I can't really explain it any better right now.)

Red flags are flying, alarm bells ringing, dogs barking, Nazghul wailing and Mt. Doom is in deep turmoil.

I have never seen a comment that looks so badly as a half-baked attempt at either killing someone by suicide (let's face it, if we kill her and she turns out a wolf, we'll HAVE to kill Morm) or the clumsiest attempt at distancing herself from Morm.

After all, no-one would be so "ballsy" (to quote her) as to make that very statement! And besides, "It is not worth (her) time, to be honest" to make a claim on her innocense.

GIMME A BREAK

It's a shame that I don't get a second vote.... that last statement alone propels her MUCH higher up my list than Greenie who has been consistently clueless throughout the game. Besides, here's a comment that makes greenie look innocent.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Lastly, a few words about Little Green. She seems like a class example of a newbie wolf. She goes along with the popular suspects and sticks to the one suspicion she's had during all the game. She also seems to pretend no one suspects her at all and doesn't react at all to the accusations against her. That's exactly what I did in my second game ever when I was evil. It is a very common wolvish mistake, one that especially inexperienced wolves tend to do. So (Aganzir, you may gasp now, since you've been waiting for this ), Little Green, I give you a piece of advice, if you're innocent, start defending yourself against the false accusations. You're one of my top suspects right now and I will most probably vote you. You're doing no good to my opinion of you by discounting all the accusations towards you. I give you a chance to make me change my opinion of you: defend yourself in a credible manner and if I'm convinced, I will refrain from voting you (at least toDay). A credible defense may change other people's views of you as well.

I don't know you folks, but this to me sounds like the folowing:

"Greenie, I am in a situation where I have to vote for you, even though you are an Ordo"

Note: The Seer would never be on such situation, since (knowing Greenie's ordishness) she'd avoid talking herself into a cornier voting-wise

"Now, I don't want my voting for you to come back and make me look wolfish, therefore if you give me a valid reason to avoid voting for you I will take it and look my flip-floppy self.... if not, I will have "proven" that I can't be a wolf by this previous 'advice' post"

Really Loomy has just shot up the threat list like a Balrog falls from the bridge of Moria.

Finally, I would like to apologise in advance if I'm wrong, but doing a set of lists like Brinniel did is a perfect strategy for a wolf with time to do such thing. My apologie is due to the fact that if she's an Ordo she did bust her rear-end to help us out and I'm suspecting her anyway.

Let's face it, what better way than to look absolutely innocent than by spending HOURS analysing other people? However:

Her conclusions are weak IMO... sure, she's noting what other people said (which we can all do by using the Search function) but after that she hasn't come up with a good idea of who may be a wolf.

Furthermore, she claimed that she'll only post "important" posts, and thus opening the way to present a biased picture of what happened so far. And we all know that many people rely on those "analysis" posts rather than reading through "20 pages" worth of notes.

Therefore, Brinniel may very well be an extremely cunning wolf here.

However, of the three mentioned, my "threat" list is as follows:

Satan's A Loser (and unfortunately, if she turns out a wolf Morm will look bad 'cos of her... but right now, I don't have a strong suspicion about Morm)
Loomy That post is just AWFUL... I understand a little flip-flop Loomy style, but that's a major fault.
Brinniel specially if Rikae winds up being furry.

Edit: Cross-posted with everyone after Volo's last.

[Meneltarmacil]

I have now gone back and read the posts of A Little Green.

She strikes me as somebody who has failed to notice a couple of important things or is intentionally ignoring them.

First, she continually asks what is so suspicious about morm, despite the fact that reasons for suspicion have been given already. Second, she doesn't seem to understand why I'm being careful about voicing opinions and why I've made a couple of jokes about not being eaten.

The first point, as stated earlier, could indicate a morm-Green partnership.

The second part I will answer here. I am being careful with my opinions because stating every minor suspicion of mine early on in the game is the main reason my ancestors were lynched or eaten in those scenarios. This happened because said behavior was perceived as a way of pointing the innocent in the direction of the gallows. I've already addressed the jokes, so there is no need to repeat myself here.

Now I have also noticed morm making similar arguments against me based on the jokes. This agreement between him and Green is troubling.

As is the mysterious tendency for the two of them, along with a wolfish-looking Rikae to attack Lommy. I don't really know what to make of this issue, but perhaps somebody else might.

Something that must be pointed out about A Little Green: Both of my reasons for suspicion could easily result from inexperience. Number One could result from an unfamiliarity with mormegil's playing style while Number Two could happen to anyone who doesn't know about the frequency of lynches and wolf-killings in my history. Since A Little Green does seem to be kind of new here, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now and go with

++mormegil

[Macalaure]

15 minutes til deadline and many votes still to come in. Where is everybody? I don't like to point it out again today, but we're in danger of a double-lynch again...

[Volo]

It's either Lily or Sally for me, but since voting Sally would be rather risky and hurried at this point...

++ A Little Green


EDIT: Xd with Mac

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Not much time marine, so listen up. I'm opening the hangar door..."

I can already see the votes flying around like mad. Based on previous suspicion,

++sally

EDIT: x-ed with Mac and Volo. Volo, have you waited a minute, maybe you would have had a reason

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Farael

Furthermore, she claimed that she'll only post "important" posts, and thus opening the way to present a biased picture of what happened so far.

I'm sorry...if you want I could go back and analyse again, this time with all details and posts included. After all, I did take notes on everything; they're on my notepad, if you could see.
I honestly didn't add every little detail because I was tired, and I had already spent enough hours analysing. I don't think it would've change my conclusions at all, though had I left them in. Anyways, doesn't everyone's analysis turned out biased? That's just how it is, I'm afraid.

Okay, I honestly meant to return earlier, but I napped much longer than planned. Anyways, I'm quite sure I'll be voting for Green in a moment; I still find her arguments too fabricated...and she's way too careful.

EDIT: X-ed with last three people

[Thinlómien]

Well, I think three of our wolves are morm, Sally and LiGre. They just form a weird triangle and are all quite suspicious. I could vote for any of them toDay.

Originally Posted by LG

Defend morm? I don't see that. I've said he looks innocent, even a couple of times, but surely if we were "pack-mates" I wouldn't do anyhting that obvious unless it was absolutely vital.

You might, just because of that. Ever heard of double-bluff? Besides, I don't know what you've been thinking, but if you and morm are indeed both wolves, you might even have considered it vital for you to step out and claim he's innocent...

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Having no opinion of my own? Well, I admit I have been wary of accusing people, mainly because nothing that has been said in here has convinced me enough to have me believe someone actually guilty. I would feel weird to start accusing people before being certain of their guilt. I suppose I should be content with mere vague suspicions, then. However, I'd feel like being very unfair if I started hot-headedly accusing people based on some gut-feelings or the words X used to say he'll be off for the rest of the day...

Ai! This sounds both all too sincere and all too wolvish at the same time.

A Little Green's defense or herself sounded more sincere than anything she has posted for a while. (That, I'm afraid, isn't very much, though.) I still think it is very probable that she is furry, but I might give her the benefit of doubt for one day and vote morm or Sally instead. Anyway, I think we should lynch some of those three and I'm most definitely going to vote one of them. (Which one, I'm not sure.)

Originally Posted by Farael

"Now, I don't want my voting for you to come back and make me look wolfish, therefore if you give me a valid reason to avoid voting for you I will take it and look my flip-floppy self.... if not, I will have "proven" that I can't be a wolf by this previous 'advice' post"

I don't quite see the logic here. Why would anyone assume a wolf couldn't have said what I said?

edit: mass xed

[Volo]

So many players could be called under-the-radar flyers. Not that they aren't noticed, but they are not discussed. Probably that's good for now as this large number of players is taking a toll on me, I really wouldn't want to participate in the game I modded .

Kath leaves me completely baffled. And the problem is that she seemes to leave pretty much everybody else baffled as well, even Fea. Mac would appear the only one suspecting her. I don't remember an Innocent Kath doing that, at the very least she has been suspicious. Since it is the case, I hope to see more of her in the Days to come.


Brinniel:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I find Valier's vote to be a bit odd. Mainly because I can't see what's so suspicious about morm.

Flashback to Lily's (Haha, funny, I'll use that, although it would help us to decide one name for each player, that would help using "search" a lot.) post. That's all.
Really - except for her analysis, which is obviously very unrational *joke* - she looks rational, useful - although I don't find much use in summaries like that, except when I write them myself, sorry Brin - and Innocent. As for Kath, I'd give her more time.

Originally Posted by Volo

Looking at yesterDay, I'm quite sure that Lommy has been Seered upon.

Originally Posted by Mac

explain?

Shalln't, I really hope that is forgotten as it is. But if you insist - please don't - I will explain.

[Macalaure]

My main suspects right now are Lommy, Sally, A Little Green, mormegil, Aganzir, Legate, The Might, in more or less that order. They're followed by the only slightly suspicious Kath, Menel, Shasta, Brinn, and Volo. Only Fea, Farael, and Kuru feel really innocent to me at the moment.

Sally -> morm
Farael -> Rikae
Shasta -> Volo
morm -> Volo (Volo 2, morm 1)
Fea -> Lily (Volo 2, morm 1, Lily 1)
Kath -> Lily (Volo 2, Lily 2, morm 1)
Aganzir -> Lily (Lily 3, Volo 2, morm 1)

I'm torn between thinking Lily suspicious and genuine. I'd be ready to give her the benefit of doubt for one more day, because she's a newbie. I don't know what to do with Volo, but I'm not convinced of his guilt. I'd prefer to keep him around for the moment. Sally's behavior casts some doubt on the guilt of mormegil. I have a feeling I won't get any support for a lynching of Lommy.

I think I will either vote for A Little Green or for Sally.

(edit: crossed with Lily and Farael)

[Nogrod]

Valier Furryfoot’s death was a hard hit to the hobbits, not the least to the other elders who had learned to like her so much during the years and who had learned to appreciate her hunches in all the matters where hunches were needed. It was clear that the Shire had lost someone they could have trusted to help them out of the trouble. But the way she was killed was plain repulsive. That seemed to feel even worse at the moment. No one had any desire for a breakfast that morning – and talking of hobbits that’s a serious matter indeed.

Most of them felt they needed a pint of strong porter from Tuckborough to cope with the situation and only a few of the youngsters settled with the local Green Dragon ale – which some called “Water-Ale” as it was light and it was made from the waters of the river Water running by - that was usually consumed by everyone around these corners.

Happily at the time of the second breakfast everyone had regained their appetite and thus they took back all that they had lost by withdrawing from the first one. And the talk was getting even more lively than the Day before. Although there seemed to be less joking toDay as the faces around the tables were quite grim.

Now Vallen’s death did bring forwards the question as to why she had been picked by the werewolves. Lommy Baggins did formulate the preliminary question as to whether the old Harrybelly was to blame or not. From that on almost every possible option imaginable – and unimaginable - were brought forwards. The most stylishly it was made by Mac Sandyman who formulated his comments on the matter in the style of the famous Lake Town philosopher Ludovic Witsendzone.

The hobbit logic has not been both revered as original ME wisdom and scorned as mere futile exercise of rural witticism by the more philophically cultivated cultures of the Middle-Earth for no reason. Even if the hobbits lack the finessé and eloquence of the cognoscenti and the sophists of Gondor they are widely known to be able to argue black into white and vice versa. And that was indeed going on at the Green Dragon on this Day! And it did take almost the whole Day.

But the further the sun crept over the sky the lengthier the speeches became. After pretty exhaustive recitations of Lommy Baggins, Legate Sackville-Baggins, Fea Belladonna and Farael Twofoot on the matter of Vallen’s death and the possible guilt of the old Harrybelly Brinn Burrows managed to top them all starting a minute analysis of all the hobbits present. With half of the hobbits fast asleep after three hours of speculation Rikae Took finally jumped up and banged her pint to the table so that everyone would hear her. All hobbits except the old Kuru Shrewthwacker did wake up.

“I will leave now and go for any help that could be obtained. I think this is a bit too big thing for us to cope alone. And think if this spreads in case we lose this fight? We Tooks have always seen the bigger picture and anyone who dares to suspect my motives will have to settle it with me personally. Even if I’m a woman I’m a Took and not afraid of anyone of you here. In the meantime you should do well to look closely at the Baggins and this honey-tongued Sandyman... That’s my last word to you fellow hobbits. I’m off now!”

“Now what shall I do? I already voted for her and she just thinks she can walk away like that! Are you trying to slip away from our verdict?” Farael Twofoot protested loudly as the doors swang after the Took.

“Cool down Twofoot, if she’s innocent she’s on a good mission and if she’s a baddie, well there’s one less of them.” Brinn Burrows calmed Farael and after that the Twofoot was quiet for a long time.

~*~

After the Took’s leave the discussion slowly concentrated on the wolfhunt itself. It seemed that Volo "Justy" Proudfoot, Lilla Greenhand and Sally Shortbrush were sharing the suspicions alongside Morm Harrybelly even though less and less was talked about the gaffer.

This Day the tables disagreed within themselves unlike Day1 when basically all of the adult-table voted for Nerwen. Something had changed.

In the end it was quite clear Lilla Greenhand was gaining the votes. And after some preliminary disagreement she did so by a large margin.

~*~

The votes were counted and an uneasy silence befell over the Green Dragon.

“Now Greenie, what do you have to say? It would be the most convenient if you... well you know what I mean. No hobbit has ever... and so forth. You know.” Said Fea Belladonna Briarpatch a bit embarrassedly.

“Nerwen did a brave thing I’d say... so...” continued Kath Woodyend not daring to look at Lilla Greenhand in the eye.

“I’m not going to commit a suicide for you to keep your consciences clean. If you so much want blood you have to draw it yourselves!” Greenie said silently standing up and looking at the hobbits around the inn challengingly and dispassionately.

All those who had not been in favour of lynching the Greenhand stayed quiet looking nervously at their feet not sure of how to react to the situation. The Greenie -voters looked at each other somewhat insecurely not quite sure whether they’d have to actually do something. Finally Agan Sackville-Baggins broke in.

“She’s not a hobbit I say!” she yelled furiously.

“No she isn’t, she’s a werewolf! Remember how these foul creatures handled poor Boffin and Furryfoot! I say revenge!” called Volo Proudfoot even more loudly.

“I say death!” yelled Brinn Burrows.

“Let’s see this werewolf into her grave!” bellowed Mac Sandyman and threw an empty tankard straight to her forehead.

Blood was spilling from Greenie's eyebrow but she remained stern and quiet for a while. Everyone was waiting.

“Do your worst but you will have to do it yourselves.” she said calmly. "And who knows who is right and who is wrong in the end?"

The Greenie -voters looked at each other once again and then like from a common consent they ran over her together grasping whatever weapon; a mug, a coalrake, a fork, a chair with them. The rest were looking at the spectacle in horror. There it was, a hobbit after another hobbit. A scene never seen before in the Shire. It filled them with horror.

Lilla Greenhand stood straight an empty look in her face when the blows started to fall. Lommy Baggins hit her with a candlestick straight to the face and the Might of Greenholm kicked her to the stomach with all his might. Then there followed a rake here, a mug there and a fork in her eye. But the blow of the Volo's chair finally got her into her knees and the subsequent blows by the rest fell her down. There was an unseen frenzy in those batting and hammering her that the onlookers at their tables were restlessy trying to avoid looking.

There was blood all over the Green Dragon’s floor when the beaters finally got enough of it and started to come back to their senses. Lilla Green’s body was a mess, an emergingly reddish pile of flesh torn apart by the blows she had received.

Then the silence of the Inn suddenly started to fill in with a hiss.

It was low at first but then it broke loose with might. The hobbits tried to cover their ears but it was useless. Slowly the pile o' bones formerly named Lilla Green turned into a swirling whirlwind that grew wider and stronger.

Everyone tried to save themselves as they jumped out from the windows and packed the doorway.

The whirlwind grew into a tornado and bursted the roof of the Green Dragon and even growing to a hurricane it broke the other end of the Inn down sending that half of the reserved celebration meals flying all around the Shire.

Then at the height of it's might when all the hobbits were trying to hide behind trees or ditches and waited for an imminent death it suddenly just vanished with a hiss and a pop.

Lilla Green, aka. the Breath was no more.


The dead:
Nogrod (mod) - Noggie Boffin - beheaded and played soccer with on Night1
Nerwen (ordo) - Nerwen Hornblower - jumped to the river not to force anyone to kill another hobbit on Day1
Valier (ordo) - Vallen FurryFoot - skinned, grilled and served as a breakfast on Night2
Rikae (ordo) – Rikae Took - left the Hobbitton to find aid from somewhere in the middle of Day2
A Little Green (the Breath) - Lilla Greenhand - beaten to death by the hobbits on Day2

The living:
Thinlómien - Lommy Baggins
Legate of Amon Lanc - Legate Sackville-Baggins
Aganzir - Agan Sackville-Baggins
Meneltarmacil - Lupo Furryface
Volo - Justy Proudfoot
Macalaure - Mac Sandyman
The Might - Might of Greenholm
Mormegil - Mormegil Harrybelly
Feanor of the Peredhil - Belladonna Briarpatch
Brinniel - Brinn Burrows
Satansaloser2005 - Sally Shortbrush
Farael – Farael Twofoot
Kath – Kath Woodyend
Shastanis Althreduin – Shasta of the River
Kuruharan -Kuru Shrewthwacker

Night3 begins.

Wolves let me know your choice. The gifteds PM me your picks.

Good Night everyone!

[Nogrod]

The werewolves met at the mallorn yet again but this time they were in no hurry. They sat down under the tree and just waited in silence that someone would open his mouth.

Finally the Drop voiced out what all the three had been thinking: “That was too bad... what they did to the Breath I mean”

“Yeah... really bad... I kinda miss her now already”, the Flame continued with a low voice. “Too bad indeed... what they did.”

“I bet they’ll turn it around and consider it a fair and courageous deed though”, the Shard said ripping the bark of the mallorn with the claws of his left paw absentmindedly.

“But how can you twist ethics in a way that makes murder a good thing?” the Flame bursted not quite agreeing what his mate had just said.

“You know the hobbit logic... that’s capable of anything”, the Drop hissed trying to uplift the mood.

But the Flame was not going to give up the question. “Ha! But we have dragged them down from the moral highground anyway, hobbit logic or not! Thou shalt not kill is the most founding moral commandment there is and they have broken against it”

“But that’s an arguable point my friend”, the Shard turned to face the Flame. “Couldn’t they just resort to some utilitarian principles of the beneficial consequences for the community as a whole?”

“Or they might bring forwards a kind of manichean interpretation of deontological ethics where only killing the goodies is morally wrong but killing the baddies is virtuous”, added the Drop.

“Now what kind of ethics is that? You can’t be serious.” The Flame was inflamed now. “Killing one of “us” is bad, killing one of “them” is good... That’s tribal thinking and not universal principles morality by definition must be based on. Every “we” or “us” can make justification for “our” cause with that localised immorality!”

“You should try to argue that to the hobbits...” the Shard snapped back seemingly unhappy about the direction the Flame was leading the discussion.

“I think the Flame has a point though. Either morals are universal or then it’s just a question of different points of view relative to each other and the truth ceases to exist any more. And in the latter case the morals will be implemented on a community only by rhetorics, politics, scaremongering or wish-gratification... or with brutal force”, the Drop put in looking at both of his mates and waiting for at least slight applauds.

“Think what you wish you two but the Breath’s death calls for revenge”, the Shard said decidedly.

“Ah, you’re right Shard”, smile the Drop: “Two wrongs do not make a right, so thence...”

Before the Flame could quite come to laugh at the pun they all froze. There was a noise like someone was coming towards the mallorn. It was a faint sound but to the sharpened ears of the werewolves it was loud as a bang of a gong. Someone was indeed coming. The wolves glanced quickly at each other and in a moment they had all vanished from the perimeter of the mallornwithout letting a sound or leaving a trace.

~*~

A lonely hobbit came to the tree and sat down. He took his pipe from his pocket and started filling it. He had been too stressed to sleep and had decided to come out as the darkness and quietness inside the house had started to feel too depressing. Outside he thought – in the open – he could see any danger in time if there was one. It was the walls and the short distances inside the hobbithole that had given him the creeps.

Had he only known...

Something hit him hard smashing his kneebones into a mash while a pair of claws ripped half of his cheeks off and covered his mouth – or what was left of it. Four gleaming eyes came down to stare at him intensively while he felt that his mouth was being stucked full of something. He tried to yell but there was no sound. The hobbit sensed a pair of clawed paws taking a tight grip of his arms and then he felt the sudden yank. Inspite the pain he realised his arms were broken.

Then the third one rushed to the place and everything went black. He was stuffed to a sack and the sack was tied. He tried to struggle to get himself free but soon realised he had nothing to make the struggle with. A rope was being tied around his neck from outside and after the knot was done the hobbit was hoisted up from the ground.

The rope tightened suddenly and the hobbit realised no one was supporting his weight any more. He was swinging from something by his neck. Legate Sackville-Baggins had been in hard places in his life – especially when his wife had asked him to explain this or that evening gone late - but now he realised he was a goner. Most definitively a goner. It was hard to breathe and it became harder all the time.

“Swing low, sweet chariot...” the Drop hummed in a quiet voice and gave him a soft push.

“coming for to carry me ho-ome...” continued the Flame as he turned to leave.

The silent but steady steps of the werewolves got farther away while they hummed the song.

“Are we becoming a bit too soft? What do you think? Lullabies and all...” the Shard asked his fellows. Those were the last words Legate ever heard.

It was quiet except for the sound of the rope chafing against the branch a bit more slower with every swing. A tear poured from Legate’s eye but he didn’t try to yell or shout any more. Instead he hummed the song quietly in his head.

If you get there before I do,
Comin' for to carry me home,
Tell all my friends I'm comin' too,
Comin' for to carry me home...

He shivered with the irony of the song... But still there was something that comforted him in it.

In the end he died with a faint smile in his face.





~*~


The dead:
Nogrod (mod) - Noggie Boffin - beheaded and played soccer with on Night1
Nerwen (ordo) - Nerwen Hornblower - jumped to the river not to force anyone to kill another hobbit on Day1
Valier (ordo) - Vallen FurryFoot - skinned, grilled and served as a breakfast on Night2
Rikae (ordo) – Rikae Took - left the Hobbitton to find aid from somewhere in the middle of Day2
A Little Green (the Breath) - Lilla Greenhand - beaten to death by the hobbits on Day2
Legate of Amon Lanc (ordo) - Legate Sackville-Baggins - sacked, bagged & hanged on Night3

The living:
Thinlómien - Lommy Baggins
Aganzir - Agan Sackville-Baggins
Meneltarmacil - Lupo Furryface
Volo - Justy Proudfoot
Macalaure - Mac Sandyman
The Might - Might of Greenholm
Mormegil - Mormegil Harrybelly
Feanor of the Peredhil - Belladonna Briarpatch
Brinniel - Brinn Burrows
Satansaloser2005 - Sally Shortbrush
Farael – Farael Twofoot
Kath – Kath Woodyend
Shastanis Althreduin – Shasta of the River
Kuruharan -Kuru Shrewthwacker

Day3 begins!

[Farael]

Hmm... Legate's dead and he's an ordo.... a few thoughts on last day's kills first though

Rikae's innocense does make Brinniel look better in my eyes. It also makes Loomy look worse.

Little Green's furryness makes me wonder about that "advice" comment by Loomy... was that a wolf trying to save his fellow wolf's skin while there was still time, or was that a really misguided ordo?

[Thinlómien]

Right now, my list looks like this:

Wolves
satansaloser2005
mormegil
Feanor of the Peredhil

Innocent
Thinlómien
Aganzir
Meneltarmacil
Volo
Macalaure
The Might
Brinniel
Farael
Kath
Shastanis Althreduin
Kuruharan

edit: xed with Farael

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Wolves
satansaloser2005
mormegil
Feanor of the Peredhil

May I ask why me, dear?

[Brinniel]

Two things that caught my eye:

Originally Posted by A Little Green Wolf

Volo is troubling me greatly at the moment. Though his latest post explained a little, there is definitely something there I don't like. Just a gut-feeling, probably.
[...] I'm ready to go for Volo as well if there is a great possibility of a double-lynch that my voting for Volo would prevent.

and

Originally Posted by Menel

I have now gone back and read the posts of A Little Green.

She strikes me as somebody who has failed to notice a couple of important things or is intentionally ignoring them.

First, she continually asks what is so suspicious about morm, despite the fact that reasons for suspicion have been given already. Second, she doesn't seem to understand why I'm being careful about voicing opinions and why I've made a couple of jokes about not being eaten.

The first point, as stated earlier, could indicate a morm-Green partnership.

Since A Little Green does seem to be kind of new here, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now and go with

++mormegil

Okay, I suspected Green because she was too careful, and indeed she was...classic newbie behaviour. That's why her quote about Volo gets to me. She says he's troubling her, but she's not sure because it's more of a gut feeling. Then she says she'd be willing to vote for him to prevent a double-lynch. She does, though in an effort to save herself. It could've easily been a wolf-on-wolf vote.

Menel's post makes me uncomfortable. He goes on about how he finds Green suspicious and comes up with this Green-morm theory. In the end, he concludes that Green's suspiciousness is just newbie behaviour and votes morm. Could that be a wolf trying to save his mate?

Other thoughts:

Why was Legate killed? Well, he wasn't seriously suspected by anyone and perhaps the wolves noticed that. Is it possible they thought he was the seer? I don't know...I fear putting too much thought into seer theories after the discussion it led to yesterDay..

Anyways, I'm still not quite sure about Lommy. While she was persistant on Green yesterDay, she did make a big deal about not voting for her Day 1 because she was a newbie. Still, I think I might bump her down to the neutral zone because she doesn't seem quite as suspicious as she did yesterDay.

Even as a newbie, I don't think Green would go to such great lengths to protect a fellow wolf, so that makes morm innocentish in my eyes.

EDIT: Mass X-ed from #271 on. Geesh...

EDIT: No, wait...I x-ed with Kuru's post too. You guys are posting too fast for me to catch up!

[Kuruharan]

Alas, poor Legate...

May as well make the case against mormegil from the get go toDay.

Specifically I would like to point to the way that A Little Green was so defensive of him.

PLEASE, WHAT MAKES MORM SO SUSPICIOUS?
-A Little Green post 190

That one seems a bit strained doesn’t it.

morm, like I've said before, strikes me as innocent.
-A Little Green post 223

Persistant.

Defend morm? I don't see that.
-A Little Green post 235

Needs glasses.

For some reason I find this statement particularly incriminating of morm.

Then there is that rather suspicious potential stealth vote he slipped in yesterday being the second to vote Volo very early on.

And A Little Green ended up voting the same way he did.

There will probably be a lot of other early posts going in the same vein...saying the exact same things or bringing up different points.

As it stands right now, morm is the choice I’m most comfortable with…although part of me thinks this is a bit too easy. *scratchhead*

P.S. Yes I know I haven’t said much about what morm himself has said and done…but we don’t really know about him do we…we know about A Little Green Wolf.

P.S.S. Course…this could all still be a huge attempt to railroad morm…but at this point it almost seems that it would be a lot of work to get to this point just to railroad morm.

P.S.S.S. Odd as it may seem, I'm not quite ready to put Volo solidly in my innocent camp yet...

[satansaloser2005]

Alas, our poor Legate. I'm sorry to have lost you friend.

Congratulations to the many villagers who managed to capture the furry beast Greenie yesterday. The Breath shall breathe no more I say, as I sigh in relief.

*wonders if she can use herself as a source for her term paper on antic disposition and feigned mental illness*

[Meneltarmacil]

I have a couple observations to make.

First of all, I remind you of the mysterious agreement that I mentioned between A Little Green, mormegil, and Rikae on the idea that Lommy is a wolf. Now that one of these three has been confirmed a wolf, it puts the other two under suspicion.

Also, I noted another area of agreement between mormegil and [B]A Little Green{/B]: that my sarcasm about the wolves eating me made me look suspicious. Note again that one of these two is known to be a wolf.

Finally, and this has nothing to do with A Little Green, I observe that Valier and Legate were the two choices for wolf kills. They were also the main suspects of Volo on Day 1. This suggests either a frame attempt or a double bluff, and with suspicions raised yesterday I'd tend to doubt the double-bluff. I suggest looking at Volo's main opponents at this point, plus a little pressure ought to be put on morm.

[Meneltarmacil]

Oh, and yes, Kuruharan, I forgot about Greenie's defense of morm. It fits the pattern well.

[The Might]

Noooooo!
They killed Legate!
You evil werewolves !(family friendly EDIT)

Well, that makes me feel kind of stupid now after being suspicious yesterday...anyway I feel better of Thinlómien now as well.

Of whom I however don't feel good at all about is Sally. I mean all this talk about not making the deadline ( I mean, ok, I won't talk anymore about that). But still this appearence right before the deadline was akward and the posts were...strange. I can't really call them wolvish really, but so strange.

Then again there was one spot that caught my eye.

Indeed it'd be a bad plan to lose even more people! Even if I was not one of them.

You know, this phrase really confuses me. So is Sally really saying that it would be a good plan to get rid of her?
Please correct me if I am wrong...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by The Might

Noooooo!
They killed Legate!
You ba****ds!

Well, that makes me feel kind of stupid now after being suspicious yesterday...anyway I feel better of Thinlómien now as well.

Of whom I however don't feel good at all about is Sally. I mean all this talk about not making the deadline ( I mean, ok, I won't talk anymore about that). But still this appearence right before the deadline was akward and the posts were...strange. I can't really call them wolvish really, but so strange.

Then again there was one spot that caught my eye.



You know, this phrase really confuses me. So is Sally really saying that it would be a good plan to get rid of her?
Please correct me if I am wrong...

Perhaps we shall see my friend, perhaps we shall see.


No totally kidding. I just meant that no matter WHO got lynched, regardless of whether it was me or someone else, lynching more than one person was a bad plan. Sorry for the confusion. Or am I?

[The Might]

And I was hoping to have the first post...anyway, after just reading your posts, I must admit that if I take a look at the previous posts, morm does indeed seem to be furry, especially considering this resemblance between his and Green's actions.
Hmmm...now I actually wonder why Legate was killed...will definitely try to take a look at that.

[Aganzir]

Now that was something inexcusable. My poor dear husband. I'll give you Sharkey, you dirty murdering ruffians!!
And Might, don't you dare to speak about my husband like that!

Ok.

Menel, a nice find about those getting killed being Volo's main suspects. I'd like to mention though that I wouldn't be much surprised to see him trying double bluff. But I'm also a bit surprised how little time it took you to notice whose suspects the kills were.

My main suspects at the moment are
sally
Brinniel / Menel. I think it sounds unlikely both of them are wolves. At the moment it's just a feeling based on how they treat each other. I'll read their posts again later.
morm, given how Greenie treated him.

I don't know what I should think of Lommy. I think I'll have to reread (tomorrow) her posts before saying anything.

Originally Posted by sally

Frankly I'm too lazy to defend myself.

If you are an innocent, that's quite selfish. In the worst possible situation we lynch you because you didn't bother to defend yourself after making pretty suspicious comments and find out you're innocent, thus weakening our chances. Werewolf is not an individual sport.

Off to sleep.

edit: xed since Volo

[Volo]

I made a vote chart, I hope it is understandable. I'll post it differently if it's too confusing.
*=dead
(i)=known Innocent (in my case known only to me)
(w)=known Wolf


Day1 votes:

Kath - Might 1

Nerwen* (i) - Lommy 1

Valier* (i) - morm 1

Might - Might 2

Rikae* (i) - Nerwen* (i) 1

Sally - morm 2

morm - Valier* (i) 1

Fea - morm 3

Brinn - Nerwen* (i) 2

Legate* (i) - Nerwen* (i) 3

Volo (i) - Valier* (i) 2

Agan - Nerwen* (i) 4

Mac - Nerwen* (i) 5

Menel - morm 4

Lily* (w) - Nerwen* (i) 6

Lommy - Nerwen* (i) 7

Kuru - Nerwen* (i) 8

Farael - no vote

Shasta - no vote


Day2 votes:

Sally - morm 1

Farael - Rikae* (i) 1

Shasta - Volo (i) 1

morm - Volo (i) 2

Fea - Lily* (w) 1

Kath - Lily* (w) 2

Agan - Lily* (w) 3

Menel - morm 2

Volo (i) - Lily* (w) 4

Legate* (i) - Sally 1

Brinn - Lily* (w) 5

Mac - Lily* (w) 6

Lily* (w) - Volo (i) 3

Might - Lily* (w) 7

Lommy - Lily* (w) 8

Rikae* (i) - no vote

Kuru - no vote



This leads to a different chart which I don't think is confusing:

1. People who have voted only for players whose roles we don't know yet:
Sally, Menel

2. People who have vote for only Innocent players (including me):
morm, Lily* (w), Kuru, Farael, Shasta

A. People who have voted for a Wolf (in this order):
Fea, Kath, Agan, Volo, Brinn, Mac, Might, Lommy

B. People who have not voted for a Wolf:
Sally, Farael, Shasta, morm, Menel, Legate* (i), Lily* (w), Kuru


The most suspicious players to me otherwise (Sally, morm, Lily*) seem to have entered the 1. and 2. categories.

I'm more and more sure of Lommy's Innocence. Apart from her I'm rather sure than Aganzir is also Innocent. The other Lily-voters look good too.


Xd with everything toDay.