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#1 | ||
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Interesting thread, elempi. Let me first add one more example from Tolkien that immediately appeared in my mind when I read your first post. It is from the UT, when the Rohirrim guard the Fords of Isen. The situation is somewhat different there, but nevertheless there is probably a reason why I have thought of it.
Briefly about the situation: Saruman's armies were marching to Rohan (and towards Helm's Deep) and the Rohirrim were holding the Fords of Isen. But, after the first battle, Théodred was slain and the Rohirrim were weakened. Other is said in the quote I will provide. Now there were two leaders present, Elfhelm and Grimbold. Quote:
Quote:
I'd say the main thing we lack is the knowledge of the Balrog's speed. Though if he is as fast as the balrogs in the First Age, he could be very fast.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#2 |
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Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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Yes, their speed was 'winged.' Just not their bodies. <ducks>
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#3 | |
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Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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Quote:
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#4 |
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Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
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The battle of Helm's Deep is a direct result of Grima having borne word to Saruman of The Mark being revivified by Gandalf; except that Grima doesn't arrive at Isengard until after Saruman has send out his army and been captured by the Ents, so it is mistaken.
I see similarities, Legate, but the differences outweigh them: both leaders are thinking in terms of strategy rather than chivalric honor. |
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#5 | |
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Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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Quote:
In the Battles of the Fords of Isen Tolkien gives a strategic overview of this period, and it's plain that the invasion of Rohan was long-planned. Saruman 'erred' in not launching it immediately upon Theodred's death in the First Battle; but his forces had taken heavier casualties than expected, and Grimbold's and Elfhelm's Riders were still in good order. At any rate the principal goal of the first attack was to kill Theodred. In the event, of course, the Second Battle occurred on the same day as Theoden's healing, so Grima could have had nothing to do with launching the invasion. NB: Tolkien's time-synching slipped here. In the narrative, the Ent-borne Merry and Pippin reach Isengard in time to watch Saruman's army march out; but in Appendix B they arrive at night on the same day the Second Battle had already been fought!
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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