Pj To Produce The Hobbit!

[Sauron the White]

from WCH

The issue is the rather astonishing claim that all the First and Second age material Tolkien ever wrote is somehow 'incorporated by reference' into the Appendices.

Could be please cite the quote where anyone made that "rather astonishing claim"? And I would like the exact quote not some rehash, a retelling , a paraphrasing, a translation, an "its the same thing as...", or "it sounded like to me that ...".

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Then, to avoid any futher accusations of 'strawman' or 'twisting', will you please, Sauron, make a succinct statement of why you think New Line has a right or a claim of a right to Silmarillion material?

[Sauron the White]

Mr. Hicklin - could you please answer my previous request to you first and then we can move on? First things first.

Again, you stated

The issue is the rather astonishing claim that all the First and Second age material Tolkien ever wrote is somehow 'incorporated by reference' into the Appendices.

And I asked you.....Could be please cite the quote where anyone made that "rather astonishing claim"? And I would like the exact quote not some rehash, a retelling , a paraphrasing, a translation, an "its the same thing as...", or "it sounded like to me that ...".

Please be good enough to cover that ground before we move on. Thank you.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

OK, quotes ensue:

Is it not possible, that a sharp legal staff with some innovative thinking, could well claim that they own the films rights to that material and anything published later and made known to the public can be used by them as well since it only details material which they already owned and had use of?

is it not possible for a legal department to advocate that since the legally own that information in the Appendicies for the purposes of film, that they have the right to other more detailed information that JRRT had also written up until that time and referred to by name or character or event in LOTR?

I would remind you that the word Silmarallion was used by JRRT in the Appendicies to LOTR where he described many events of the First and Second Ages. That material from LOTR is owned as film rights by Saul Zaentz and New Line Cinema.

Could not a case be made that it was Christopher Tolkien who - in your words - "used some sneaky way" of attempting to take back what his father had already sold?

Now, how have I misinterpreted your argument?

[Sauron the White]

Again good sir, I ask you to please produce the quote where I made - in your words the astonishing claim that

all the First and Second age material Tolkien ever wrote is somehow 'incorporated by reference' into the Appendices.

The quotes taken from my posts indicate that some material would be covered but I see nothing there going to the extreme position that you take in your quoted claim.

I stand ready to be corrected.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Then allow me to moderate the statement you take issue with.

As I understand you, you appear to be claiming that if the LR includes a brief sketch or synopsis of some tale or incident from the earlier history, than that tale or incident in all its forms, including, e.g., the full 25-page 'Of Beren and Luthien,' is 'incorporated by reference' into New Line's film rights.

[Sauron the White]

Again sir, before we move on, you were in error and wrong when you stated that persons here were making this supposed argument

The issue is the rather astonishing claim that all the First and Second age material Tolkien ever wrote is somehow 'incorporated by reference' into the Appendices.

I am more than happy to discuss this with you or anyone else and freely answer your questions. However, I do approach with some trepidation the opponent who somehow, someway and for some reason purposelly exaggerates my position to the point of absurdity and inviting ridicule. Lets us deal with things as they are please.