WW XXXXI: With a Twist

[Nerwen]

Good idea... though I don't know how useful it's going to be toDay, when we're going to have people disappearing to go to Christmas parties and such.

EDIT: X'd with Shasta.

[Valier]

oh the drama!! I am short on time right now, and I hate to throw out any accusations yet. I am forming some ideas on people as the day goes on. Thankfully this is going to be a longer day, giving us all more to work with. I will be back after work tomorrow, hopefully there will be more talk, (but let's hope, not like 3 pages to read when I get home.)

[Farael]

How odd (or is it "refreshing" the word I'm looking for?) I'm away from the computer for a sizable portion of the evening and I find that the number of posts is still manageable. That's just wonderful methinks!

*ahem*

There's little to add as most points have been covered. A few thoughts

Rikae is being agressive, which is her usual M.O. She also says this

Shasta looks overeager to participate and rather nervous. I've seen him as a wolf before (in the game I modded), and he had a similar "mood" then.

It should be worth mentioning she said something similar about Macalure last time around and guess what? he WAS a wolf.

Still, I wouldn't usually pay much attention to comments like those (after all, my playing style may vary from game to game as the mood strikes me, and depending on how busy I am in Real Life) if it wasn't because Shasta HAS been looking rather odd

His comments about Nogrod better be a joke (as Noggie already said he would be toning down his participation level)

And then we have this

Playing style changes usually indicate something or other. (Hah, look at me go...)

Really now? playstyle changes indicate something well, that's helpful... if it wasn't because you could just PM it to your fellow wolves (assuming you were one) I'd think this is a wolves' attempt at alerting the other wolves of a possible gifted.

I had a lot of requests last game to become more active, so I'm trying

Well, perhaps you have been joking around and I for once agree with that kind of play-style, as I strive hard to remember (myself and remind others) that this is just a game.

However, if you are seriously trying to help I'd recommend you try to express your theories in a way that they are likely at least to be considered. Playing too cautiously may not get you lynched, but it won't get you support either. And that goes for the rest of the village as well!!


On a random note, where is SPM? I've been waiting all day to start a friendly match of non-sensical accusations

Edit: Fixing punctuation (forgot a question mark after SPM)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Farael, any attempt I make at raising my activity level is GOING to look "rather odd", considering how active I've been in the past.

I will say, since some people seem to not get my sense of humor (Actually, I get that a lot. o_o) that my comments on EggNogrod were meant in the spirit of jest. Ho hum.

[Boromir88]

Wow, Day 1 is lasting 36 hours, that's good...for some reason my math is really bad and I thought it was a 12 hour day so I rushed up to make the deadline...hmm and apparently I would have missed it if it was a 12 hour day. Anyway, 36 hours is nice so I'm going to go take a look at everything...say my bit and head off to work. Who works Christmas eve? (this man does).

[Nerwen]

Farael, I'm not all that happy about Shasta myself.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Not especially, but I think they deserve a bit of a look-see. Playing style changes usually indicate something or other. (Hah, look at me go...)

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Thanks for posting that thing about Wolves being able to post during the day, Nerwen (was it Nerwen? I believe so), because I never even saw it. (Does this mean I'm a wolf thanking Nerwen for mentioning something that can help me out? No, that's me thanking Nerwen for showing me something I hadn't read in the rules. Silly people.)

A possible double-bluff there, I think. Did Shaswolf just show his teeth? (While at the same time making sure that we know he can't be a wolf, because a wolf would have known about the pm situation– right?)

Against that– well, judging from what I know of Shasta's playing-style, that would be an awfully bold move from him. Unless he's very different as a wolf than as an ordo. Also, he's reminding me of Sally, who had that same way of toying with the idea of being a wolf last game, got lynched for it– and was innocent.

[Isabellkya]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Farael, I'm not all that happy about Shasta myself.

A possible double-bluff there, I think. Did Shaswolf just show his teeth? (While at the same time making sure that we know he can't be a wolf, because a wolf would have known about the pm situation– right?)

I think this particular piece of 'bluffing material' is a bit on the shallow side. It is just too obvious to have a proper effect. I don't think it should be ignored; yet I don't think we should hinge votes upon it.

Boromir is asserting his 'us-ness' a bit too strongly. I can't recall if this is usual style of word choice or not. It is another one of those shallower bluffing tools which are always obvious.

*********
Okay, I've made it to post 116 and now I must go. Hopefully I'll be able to return before my relatives arrive.

[Boromir88]

There's little to add as most points have been covered.

Oh, master Farael, what do you mean there is little to add? I see bunches to add and the day is young, we are just beginning.

For instance, I see that Shasta is a wolf, Nerwen is innocent. Nogrod is posting exactly the same as he always does whether wolf or innocent. I want Rikae whacked so Azaelia can become the wise-woman and I am moved up to assistant to the wise-woman. See, I just added a bunch and that was whatever first popped into my head.

Wow, is this village stacked, or what? If I was a wolf I would be as scared as hell.

Those twists better help us as otherwise it looks grim indeed.~Nogrod

By "us" do you mean the innocent or the wolves? Because, really you could say "us" to seem as if you are creating a good "we're in this together" vibe, but really by using "us" you mean your wolf pals. A big problem in a village seems to be that we aren't good at communicating and people are constantly interpretting something someone said wrong. In order to avoid this, I say we all need to become more clear, to clearly get across our points. That way no one is getting confused by something someone else said.

Nogrod, if you're an optimist I am Batman, I mean really...come on are you being serious? And who is to say the twists don't help "us" (by "us" I mean the villagers)...Do you really think phantom would create such a lopsided game that would cause the village to be slaughtered in a matter of 4-5 days? Well, maybe if he was in that kind of mood, but this village isn't as "doomed" as you are thinking it is. Even if it was 4 wolves and no gifteds, the wolves would be facing the collective brain power of a baker's dozen group of experienced werewolf hunters. Add on top of that your gifteds and now some twists to the game? And you got yourself one promising game.

strong players are, after all, as likely if not more likely to be wolves than the rest are.~Rikae

I think Nogrod operates under the belief that if we get rid of all the quiet/I'm not going to give much away people, than all the "loudmouth" wolves would eventually be caught and lynched. I take pride in being a loudmouth, but dang is it hard as heck to survive as a wolf. The only time I did survive as a wolf, was one with phantom, and he pretty much did all the evil wolvish stuff, wolves do, and I sat back and ate some popcorn. It's far easier for wolves to escape further down the road if they really quiet...as they escape talk for a while and you are left with the loudmouths killing eachother off, until one day we all realize...hey I didn't even know unnamed quiet person was in this village? Crap we better do something about that.

So, Nogrod's line of thought is, to lynch all the "quieter" type early, and we'll probably get one or two that is a wolf and eventually the loudmouth wolves will be caught, because they talk themselves into trouble. One strategy, that I've considered many times adopting, but I rather think sometimes "quiet" is mistaken as "unhelpful," which isn't the case at all.

I'm pretty sure I crossed with a couple people

[Nogrod]

It's nice to see one's own thoughts explained by helpful fellow-villagers... (that said clearly enough, Boro?)

But yes, Boro is about right with his last point about my preferences with lynchings. Loud people leave a lot of tracks and trying to pin down a wolf by the tracks they leave is much more fun and interesting than blindly quessing on someone who either doesn't post or only throws in oneliners trying to go with the flow.

Well, tp promised to deal blows to those who don't contribute to the game so we can possibly forget those who do not post at all at least for a while. If phantom keeps his word it would seem that no wolf can get through this game by just hiding in the shadows.

But that also means that every innocent must come forwards and speak as every innocent we lose because of modfire is just waste. Staying quiet innocents only help the wolves.

EDIT: X'd with Legate (nice sig!)

[Farael]

The first conspiracy theory of the day!

Ok, here's a case of "he should have known better" for my first conspiracy theory (second actually, if we take Shasta into account)

Originally Posted by Boromir88

For instance, I see that Shasta is a wolf, Nerwen is innocent. Nogrod is posting exactly the same as he always does whether wolf or innocent. I want Rikae whacked so Azaelia can become the wise-woman and I am moved up to assistant to the wise-woman. See, I just added a bunch and that was whatever first popped into my head.

Now, that seems harmless enough, just a little Day 1 banter... but his "seeing" that Shasta is a wolf just jumped out at me

Farael, have you gone daft? Boro might very well be the Seer and you are flushing him out!

Now, let me explain here why I'm doing this and perhaps taking a bit of a chance. While it's true that it might be a "seer-hint" I am concerned on two accounts. First of all, Boro should simply know better. If he trully is the Seer he'd be careful not to say such thing on day one, as a wolf picking up on it would mean near-certain death.

Second, of all people he could've "Dreamed" of as a seer, isn't it awfully convenient that he dreamed of one of the main suspects so far this Day? And found him a wolf? I'm no mathematician, but the odds are stacked against all these "chance" happenings.

Originally Posted by Boro

By "us" do you mean the innocent or the wolves? Because, really you could say "us" to seem as if you are creating a good "we're in this together" vibe, but really by using "us" you mean your wolf pals. A big problem in a village seems to be that we aren't good at communicating and people are constantly interpretting something someone said wrong. In order to avoid this, I say we all need to become more clear, to clearly get across our points. That way no one is getting confused by something someone else said.

Now. I'm pretty sure this is all jest and I'm fine with that on principle, but he goes on attacking Nogrod with things that are not really explained as suspicions

Originally Posted by Boro

Nogrod, if you're an optimist I am Batman, I mean really...come on are you being serious? And who is to say the twists don't help "us" (by "us" I mean the villagers)...Do you really think phantom would create such a lopsided game that would cause the village to be slaughtered in a matter of 4-5 days? Well, maybe if he was in that kind of mood, but this village isn't as "doomed" as you are thinking it is. Even if it was 4 wolves and no gifteds, the wolves would be facing the collective brain power of a baker's dozen group of experienced werewolf hunters. Add on top of that your gifteds and now some twists to the game? And you got yourself one promising game.

As a matter of fact I agree with his point, no mod would want to create an unbalanced village on purpose, so we have to hope for the best (and prepare for the worst). My problem here is that he writes this more as an attack on Nogrod than an attempt at calming the waters for all of us villagers.

I think Nogrod operates under the belief that if we get rid of all the quiet/I'm not going to give much away people, than all the "loudmouth" wolves would eventually be caught and lynched. I take pride in being a loudmouth, but dang is it hard as heck to survive as a wolf. The only time I did survive as a wolf, was one with phantom, and he pretty much did all the evil wolvish stuff, wolves do, and I sat back and ate some popcorn. It's far easier for wolves to escape further down the road if they really quiet...as they escape talk for a while and you are left with the loudmouths killing eachother off, until one day we all realize...hey I didn't even know unnamed quiet person was in this village? Crap we better do something about that.

So, Nogrod's line of thought is, to lynch all the "quieter" type early, and we'll probably get one or two that is a wolf and eventually the loudmouth wolves will be caught, because they talk themselves into trouble. One strategy, that I've considered many times adopting, but I rather think sometimes "quiet" is mistaken as "unhelpful," which isn't the case at all.

I'm pretty sure I crossed with a couple people

Sorry for the large chunk of text, I couldn't find a way to divide it into more manageable parts.

Basically Boromir goes and explains Nogrod's behaviour/theory. So after attacking Nogrod on grounds that are not based on suspicions but rather pessimism and the use of the word "us", Boromir tries to find some "common ground" with Nogrod.

Finally, and another big problem here, is that Boromir is in favour of lynching people based on quantity rather than quality of posting.

Actually, he is not even "in favour" of it completely, as he says that he "considered adopting" but it can be misinterpreted as "let's lynch the unhelpful" which is against the spirit of this theory.

So, Master Boromir if I was to post every 15 minutes with a nonsensical string of random words, would I be lower down your suspicions list than if I posted twice a (game) day with very well thought-out comprehensive posts?

Maybe I understood it all wrong, but in summary

• Boromir tosses out a lame seer hint that would not fool a WW newbie. Curiously enough, "claiming" to have "seen" that the top suspect thus far is a wolf. Yes, it was part of a "jest" post, but that is what makes it look like a bad seer-hint to me
• Boromir attacks Nogrod on grounds of the word "us" and his pessimism
• Boromir then agrees with Nogrod on grounds of his "lynch quiet" approach
• Boromir does not even wholy agrees that Nogrod's theory is possible, as it can be "misunderstood
• this "misunderstanding" I must be guilty of, as I think Nogrod's theory would make no sense otherwise
  
  
  
  
  

So say what you will, but Boromir looks rather fishy right now.

[Kath]

Ah after that comment about someone being the shepherd I feel that we should all have chosen Christmassy occupations! Oh well, on to the game in hand.

Rikae mentioned Legate's overcautiousness and thought it odd but I actually think it's completely normal. His posts are generally long because he argues himself in circles within them trying not to come to a conclusion whilst coming to a conclusion. He's a bit like Lommy really, flip-floppy.

Shasta's change in style. Well it is difficult to force yourself to be louder when you're so used to playing quietly and going for attention rather than substance could well be one way of doing that. Still, it is only Day 1, if he pops up tomorrow still doing this I might be more concerned but hopefully he'll be getting the hang of it. I can talk though, two posts a Day is my comfortable limit but tp said he wanted more committed players so I've got to try and be louder too Shasta!

Farael actually seems rather normal to me. Argumentative but generally helpful, as with the pre-game discussion, er, discussion.

Noggie said he was going to be quieter? Please keep reminding me of this, I will forget and suspect him on the basis of that otherwise.

Nerwen, well I know she's naturally loud but she seems unnaturally jumpy at the moment. When she screamed at whoever it was to come back because they'd made a comment about the Seer possibly being the cursed, which they actually hadn't. I know that she hasn't played with a cursed before (well I say I know, I'm pretty sure) but the wording in tp's early posts seemed pretty clear. Could have been a sudden 'what the-' reaction but it seems over the top.

That's it from me for now. Christmas Eve duties call (so early!). Back later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hullo, I saved some time to pop in, though I can see the discussion is running well enough. A few comments...

Rikae is quite, how would I say that politely, aggressive in the way I don't like. Which, of course, is absolutely normal for her, so I don't see anything suspicious about her.

I can't see what everyone had with Nogrod's posts, he posted almost nothing and this nothing did not look suspicious. So apart from the fact that he did not yet start his floodposting, I don't see anything strange and mainly, I would wait to see more from him to form any opinions about him. I don't like morm somewhat, his reaction to Nerwen and then quick switches from his first post to suspecting Rikae in the second makes me think of wolf PM-discussion meanwhile or something (like "Let's now focus on Rikae for a moment." "Roger, wolftower.").

Nerwen seems quite reasonable. Her posts seem trying to be helpful and I don't see anything unusual about her.

And Shasta, well, he is obviously crazy. Obviously trying to be active is taking its toll. But his quite careless accusations make me feel uneasy. I mean, the way he does it looks like not taking care of other things at all. He is probably the one whom I dislike the most this far.

Otherwise, Mr. Farael seems quite okay, even though mad, and Kath looks helpful. Other people either have posted too little or I don't have anything to say about them yet.

So, that would be it. Leaving, who knows how it will go, maybe I will come back maybe not, but if nothing, then before the DL.

EDIT: x-ed with Boro. Hmm, reasonable, though there is something I just don't... whatever. We'll see what the future brings. Time to go now.