The Greatest of the Eldar

[Groin Redbeard]

Was Elrond an Eldar?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Elrond was 9/16 Eldarin by blood. More important though is the fact that he was given the choice and elected to be an Elf.

[Eönwë]

First of all, what is greatness?
If you say potency of spirit, then I think Feanor had a very potent spirit. I seem to recall that when he died it turned his body to ash (obviously related to his name "fiery spirit")

WHy stick to only Eldar?
I mean there were some great elves that were not eldar. I think the non-eldar elves get too neglected in these sorts of things. As an example of one in LOR, I could give you Legolas, or his father Thranduil (who was more in the hobbit)

What about wisdom?
The wisest elf on ME is obiously Cirdan. He is the oldest elf that is not in Valinor and he has suffered many hardships. Not to mention that he gave his ring of power to Gandaf (ALso a sacrifice, might be a sign of greatness).

How does Luthien qualify to be Eldar?
Isn't it a bit strange that a half-elf can wualify as eldar? She is half divine, and her father only becomes Eldar through strange circumstances. Elu Thingol (or ELwe Singollo) is also a SIndar elf, remember that. And she is half MAiar. Anyone achieving demi-godliness is great.

BUt Luthien is not great because of being herself, or an eldar, neither is she geat for anything but her birth. She did not achieve greatness she just is great.
HOw can that be greatness. JUst because your mother is a goddess it shouldn't make you great.

Greatesss depends on what you mean: It could be potency of spirit, nobility of birth, divinity levels, beauty,strebght, warrior skill, crafting, wisdom, cunning, self-sacrifice, etc. Luthien only fits one of these things. Some Eldar fit many more. (I will discuss this in more detail, but it is late here)

[William Cloud Hicklin]

WHy stick to only Eldar?
I mean there were some great elves that were not eldar. I think the non-eldar elves get too neglected in these sorts of things. As an example of one in LOR, I could give you Legolas, or his father Thranduil (who was more in the hobbit)

Sorry, they were both Sindar, and therefore Eldar. Even if Legolas' mother was a Nando- well, the Nandor were Eldar too.

No Avar ever comes in to any of Tolkien's narratives.

[Galin]

According to The Lord of the Rings the East-elves were not Eldar however, nor their languages considered Eldarin. Thus most of the folk of Mirkwood and Lórien were not considered Eldar.

Still Thranduil was Eldarin, being Sindarin as noted.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Cirdan wasn't an elf to my knowledge... I thought that Elves had nicely un- bearded faces and Cirdan had a beard.... Maybe I'm just strange...

[obloquy]

Cirdan was a first-generation Elda.

First of all, what is greatness?
If you say potency of spirit, then I think Feanor had a very potent spirit. I seem to recall that when he died it turned his body to ash (obviously related to his name "fiery spirit")

He did have a potent spirit, and he was one of the three greatest Eldar.

WHy stick to only Eldar?
I mean there were some great elves that were not eldar.

I'd be surprised if you could name some great Avari. Still, even if you can, they weren't as great as the Eldar.

What about wisdom?

The whole point of the original post is that Tolkien provided an unequivocal and (this part seems the hardest to grasp) unqualified answer to the question. It's not about what they were great at: just as Sauron is unquestionably Morgoth's greatest servant, Luthien is unquestionably the greatest of the Eldar, followed by Feanor and Galadriel--relative wisdom, might in battle, skill in crafts, etc. notwithstanding.

How does Luthien qualify to be Eldar?
Isn't it a bit strange that a half-elf can wualify as eldar? She is half divine, and her father only becomes Eldar through strange circumstances. Elu Thingol (or ELwe Singollo) is also a SIndar elf, remember that. And she is half MAiar. Anyone achieving demi-godliness is great.

Firstly, children of the Eldar are Eldar by birth. Otherwise Elwe and Cirdan would be the only ones mentioned in this thread who actually qualify as Eldar. Secondly, the first post in this thread contains direct quotations from Tolkien himself, so it's not a matter of opinion or debate. Also, I'm curious: why would you say that Elwe is an Elda only because of "strange circumstances"?

BUt Luthien is not great because of being herself, or an eldar, neither is she geat for anything but her birth. She did not achieve greatness she just is great.
HOw can that be greatness. JUst because your mother is a goddess it shouldn't make you great.

Have you even read the Silmarillion?

Greatesss depends on what you mean: It could be potency of spirit, nobility of birth, divinity levels, beauty,strebght, warrior skill, crafting, wisdom, cunning, self-sacrifice, etc. Luthien only fits one of these things. Some Eldar fit many more. (I will discuss this in more detail, but it is late here)

No, it doesn't. If it did, Tolkien would have qualified his declaration of greatness each time he made it. To Tolkien, it meant inner power--the metaphysical magnitude of a person. There's no need to discuss it more, because this is an open-and-shut case. If someone asks "Who is the greatest Elf?" the answer is, indubitably, Luthien Tinuviel. Why? Because Tolkien said so.