Them Dwarven folk.

[Aganzir]

I don't think (even food) trade with hobbits is a completely impossible thought. It just doesn't make sense that the dwarves had no way to get food without trading, which I think is what you zxcvbn are saying (or at least coming up with points that back it up).

I bet it takes more people & resources to travel quite a distance just to buy food than it takes to farming, keeping of cattle, hunting or whatever. And dwarven products would sell even without barter.

How many dwarves live in the Blue Mountains anyway? Even though dwarves were a dwindling race at the end of the Third Age, I dare to say there were still more than could be feeded with traded food only.

And how much food does a dwarf consume per day? How much does a dwarf work per day? Buying all their food would soon have made their work unprofitable.

[zxcvbn]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't think (even food) trade with hobbits is a completely impossible thought. It just doesn't make sense that the dwarves had no way to get food without trading, which I think is what you zxcvbn are saying (or at least coming up with points that back it up).

What I'm saying is that IMHO the Dwarves were not food producers. I suppose they hunted, gathered wild roots, caught fish and maybe cultivated mushrooms inside their mounntain halls, but I don't think they did any farming or herding if they could help it, and usually obtaiined most(not all, but most) of their food through trade.

I bet it takes more people & resources to travel quite a distance just to buy food than it takes to farming, keeping of cattle, hunting or whatever. And dwarven products would sell even without barter.

How many dwarves live in the Blue Mountains anyway? Even though dwarves were a dwindling race at the end of the Third Age, I dare to say there were still more than could be feeded with traded food only.

And how much food does a dwarf consume per day? How much does a dwarf work per day? Buying all their food would soon have made their work unprofitable.

I always thought that it was the food suppliers who were disadvantaged. Dwarven products(tools, weapons, jewellry, road-building, stone-work etc.) tend to be rather expensive. In comparision food is quite cheap. Notice that the Dwarves of Erebor were the ones who profited most from their trade with Men. None of the Northmen were anywhere near as wealthy as the Dwarves. Bard, who recieved only one-fourteenth of the treasure of Thrain, was said to still have "wealth exceeding that of many mortal(meaning human) kings".

Heh. I'm really enjoying this discussion.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by zxcvbn

but I don't think they did any farming or herding if they could help it, and usually obtaiined most(not all, but most) of their food through trade.

If they could help it, yes- but I think they rather did farming and herding than were completely dependant on outsiders.

I always thought that it was the food suppliers who were disadvantaged. Dwarven products(tools, weapons, jewellry, road-building, stone-work etc.) tend to be rather expensive. In comparision food is quite cheap.

I agree, but only in case dwarves produced some food also on their own. It requires quite much food to keep the whole society content; and if they bought most of it, they would have had to buy it from many farmers and pay each enough. I know the dwarves were good tradesmen, but we must remember all of those who ate didn't contribute to the making of trading goods.

Heh. I'm really enjoying this discussion.

I enjoy every discussion that concerns dwarves.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

If they could help it, yes- but I think they rather did farming and herding than were completely dependant on outsiders.

Good point. Is is possible that they could bring livestock into their mountain halls, and simply bring the supplies to feeding the animals inside?

I like zxcvbn's idea about the mushrooms.

I enjoy every discussion that concerns dwarves.

Ahhh... a man after my own heart!

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Good point. Is is possible that they could bring livestock into their mountain halls, and simply bring the supplies to feeding the animals inside?

I think that's quite possible (and it brings in another question: ventilation systems). The most logical scenario is that the animals spent summers outside, guarded by a few herdsmen. Most of them were butchered in the autumn and salted or smoked, others spent the winter inside the mountain. Calves were born in the early spring.
It requires so much fodder that it wouldn't be profitable to keep them inside all year.

[zxcvbn]

The reason I don't think Dwarves were given to farming is because their halls were not well-aired, and were mostly cut off from sunlight. Plants need both fresh air and abundant sunlight to grow, and unless the Dwarves had UV lamps like those used in modern greenhouses it would not be possible to obtain a good crop underground. Plus I don't think the rocky, gravelly soil down there would be very fertile.

The only exception is mushrooms and other fungi, which grow well under such conditions inside dark caves.

[Aganzir]

Ah, but I didn't think either that they were growing plants inside a mountain. Rather that they had some fields on the slopes and in the vales.