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Old 01-14-2008, 01:03 PM   #1
Eönwë
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Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Eru cannot be light or dark, he is the creator. He created light and dark (and unlight), so how could he be one. I see the Secret fire as life, and a soul/spirit/etc. And anyway, Eru isn't pure good. Remember what he says about Melkor's deeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLT
Yet is through him [Melko] and not by him; and he shall see, and all ye likewise, and even shall those beings, who must now dwell among his evil and endure through Melko misery and sorrw, terror and wickedness, declare in the end that it redoundeth only to my great glory, and doth but make the theme more worth the hearing, Life worth living, and the World so much the more wonderful and marvellous, that of all the deeds of Illúvatar it shall be called his mightiest and his loveliest
He cares about his design (the music, its intricacies and beauty), not just good and evil. He made them both (maybe the evil was unintentional, but it spawned of him).

The way I see it, Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant (or Ungwe Liante) are equals. Remember what he says to the barrow wight? When he banishes him to the darkness
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOTR
Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!
Shrivel llike the cold mist, like the winds go wailing,
Out into the barren lands far beyond the mountains!
Come never here again! Leave your barrow empty!
Lost and forgotten be, darker than the darkness,
Where gates stand for ever shut, till the world is mended
Can you see this? He is banishing him out of Arda, to a place darker than the darkness. And he is opposed to this force, the barrow wight. Who is sort of drinking the hobbits's life (maybe connected to light, like in the Two Trees) (if I remember correctly. And is it hroa or ea I'm talking about here?) and Tom Bombadil sends him away. I think that Tom is the opposite of Ungoliant, who has a similar effect (she drinks the Two Trees' light and life), and Tom brings back light (he saves the hobbits in this case. And the fact that Tom is not affected by the ring, and has no power over it shows he is not a Maia, but also Shelob had a chance to take the ring but she didn't (but how would she have worn it). Tom is banishing the barrow away from him, into the Dark, so he must be in the Light. So he probably is the opposite counterpart.

So basically I think that. Ungoliant is Tom's opposite, and Eru is equal (neither good or bad, but giver and taker of life, more, creator of life).

But also, some questions. "All the deeds of Illúvatar"? are there more. And who is there to call this work "his mightiest and his loveliest". Surely not te Ainhu, because they ae his creations too, so they cannot judge themselves against another creation.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:18 PM   #2
The Might
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I see quite a lot that speaks for Bombadil and Ungoliant being, if not truly opposed beings, at least of similar origin, but I do not see Eru in any way on the same level.
He has powers way beyond those of the other two. While Bombadil is Master in hiw own land, within the boundaries that he had set, Iluvatar is Master over all the creation.

A few quotes to support this thought:

Quote:
"But Rúmil said: 'Ilúvatar was the first beginning, and beyond that no wisdom of the Valar or of Eldar or of Men can go.' 'Who was Ilúvatar?' asked Eriol. 'Was he of the Gods?' 'Nay,' said Rúmil, 'that he was not, for he made them. Ilúvatar is the Lord for Always who dwells beyond the world; who made it and is not of it nor in it, but loves it.' " ~ BoLT, Music of the Ainu
And also commenting on the "He is." part from FotR he says in a letter:

Quote:
As for Tom Bombadil, I really do think you are being too serious, besides missing the point. [...] You rather remind me of a Protestant relation who to me objected to the (modern) Catholic habit of calling priests Father, because the name father belonged only to the First Person.
Pretty clear that Bombadil is not God and so in a way subordinated to Eru.
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