COMPASS & LOTR comparison

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Perhaps it has been a long day, BUT .... the AA was not given for the book LOTR. It was given for the adaption of the book to the screen as a screenplay. You seem to be laboring a gross misunderstanding of the nature of the award and what it is for. I, and I am sure that you also, would have absolutely no idea how many Academy members have read LOTR. It could be many, it could be few, it could be all, it could be none. Such a question serves no purpose since it can not be answered with any authority.

If they hadn't read the book how could they award Best Adapted Screenplay. Surely they'd need an idea of what had been adapted?

I do not remember anyone in the theater screaming at the awful nature of having Galadriel deliver that line.

There were a lot of thickies in the cinema when I saw it too - what's your point?

I do not remember any critic in the print media or broadcast media pointing out problems with that line as you seem to feel there are. Seems to me you are picking at a very tiny piece of lint that nobody else notices or even cares about. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

You're still missing my entire point about the way a character speaks reflecting that character's nature.

[Sauron the White]

I think it is you sir who completely and totally misses the point. There are a bunch of you who read the same stuff over and over again and commit it to memory like devotees reading the Word of the Master. You read some obscure article written by somebody who is read by a small handful of True Believers and you think "Oh boy he has 'em by the short hairs now". You jump up and down in glee because now you are armed with mighty weapons to defeat the hordes of ignorance who have besotted your precious tome. Only problem is that nearly nobody cares about the arcane points made by these obscure persons. Nearly nobody.

I would be willing to bet a considerable sum that if you surveyed 100 random people on the street who saw LOTR and asked them what was wrong with Galadriel delivering that line, hardly anyone, if anyone, would come up with the objection that you posted.

The movies were made and they were rousing successes. They were nearly universally praised by professional critics. The public showered them with their money. The film industry showered them with their highest awards. Get used to it. But if you want to put all that on the scale next to some obscure comments by Shippey, knock yourself out.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

You read some obscure article written by somebody who is read by a small handful of True Believers and you think "Oh boy he has 'em by the short hairs now".

Are you referring to Rosebury or Shippey? Rosebury wrote 'Tolkien in Perspective', a book which many consider second only to Shippey's work in its analysis of Tolkien.

I would be willing to bet a considerable sum that if you surveyed 100 random people on the street who saw LOTR and asked them what was wrong with Galadriel delivering that line, hardly anyone, if anyone, would come up with the objection that you posted.

That's the modern education system for you.

The movies were made and they were rousing successes. They were nearly universally praised by professional critics. The public showered them with their money. The film industry showered them with their highest awards. Get used to it. But if you want to put all that on the scale next to some obscure comments by Shippey, knock yourself out.

In the words of Thomas Fuller: “The mob has many heads, but no brains”

[Lalaith]

I like the films, but I really didn't like the psycho-babble lines that davem is talking about. And I didn't think they deserved the Adapted Screenplay Oscar, it was the one award that I would have preferred them not to get. Particularly as they did little to convince those (and I know several, close to me) who are convinced that Tolkien is pompous,naff, and faintly ridiculous, that actually he wasn't.

Sauron, I'm guessing you're writing from the US? I think that UK audiences found the dialogue silliler than American audiences did, certainly a lot of UK film critics took the mick out of some of the lines.
Anyway, I asked Mr L to try to spot the genuine Tolkien lines in the script (he's never read any but I told him to look out for anything he thought sounded like it hadn't been written by a Hollywood scriptwriter) and he was pretty accurate.

[Sauron the White]

from Lalaith

I like the films, but I really didn't like the psycho-babble lines that davem is talking about. And I didn't think they deserved the Adapted Screenplay Oscar, it was the one award that I would have preferred them not to get. Particularly as they did little to convince those (and I know several, close to me) who are convinced that Tolkien is pompous,naff, and faintly ridiculous, that actually he wasn't.

Yes but was that part of their job and duties? Were they really suppose to convince the world that JRRT was not a pompous, faintly ridiculous man? Those movies did more to shine a proper spotlight on JRRT than all the scholarly articles, fan journals and literary circles did in the previous 45 years. They certainly increased book sales five fold during that time period.

[Sauron the White]

davem ... I am not the first, and its not my first time either, to observe that you pontificate from an extremely high position of self importance and would-be superiority. Your contempt for the world comes through loud and clear.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

davem ... I am not the first, and its not my first time either, to observe that you pontificate from an extremely high position of self importance and would-be superiority. Your contempt for the world comes through loud and clear.

I only note that you have completely failed to address my point about language reflecting character, & have chosen rather to present yourself as champion of the common people.

I can't help but fondly recall that Simpsons episode - "Now Bambi, who started that forest fire that killed your mother? Evolution?! My my my"

Your 'argument' seems to be that if no-one has picked up on a fact then that fact is somehow irrelevant. In a debate one is required to disprove, not simply dismiss, one's opponent's points.

[Lalaith]

I take your point about the films bringing people to Tolkien.
But...it's absolutely fine for people to think JRRT is pompous if they are making judgements based on things he actually wrote. But it seems a bit unfair if they making judgements based on things written by Walsh, Boyens and Jackson.

[Sauron the White]

davem ... and just when did Shippey publish this amazing breakthrough which has the effect of destroying the films and all the evil that they stand for?

[Sauron the White]

Lalaith... could you give me an example or two of what you are charging Jackson and company with? I am unclear on this and do not know how to respond to your point. Thanks.

[Lalaith]

Let's not exaggerate the international success of Compass

Actually, I'm quite surprised how well Compass has done, internationally, given that I personally thought it a weaker film than Stardust. It's the 13th best-grossing film of 2007, worldwide, according to boxofficemojo. (Stardust was 67th and has made less than half of what Compass has done, worldwide, even though its been out for two months longer)