The Witch King....shall rise again!?!

[The Might]

1. He was not dead, he was "reduced to impotence" (some letter).
2. So what if he was reduced to impotence? Túrin was dead and still we learn that he will eventually kill Melkor.
3. I still wouldn't make a big deal of this Dagor Dagorath thing. It is nice and everything, but, and this is important to mention in my opinion it is very, very uncertain. I have discussed on this topic with other people on other forums and will come back with a thread on it specifically shortly (tro brush up my knowledge), but, as far as I am aware towards the end of his life Tolkien started transferring many elements from the Dagor Dagorath to the battle that ended the War of Wrath.
It is thus seemingly unclear whether he was planning to leave the Dagor Dagorath as a part of the whole story or if there wasn't going to be any.

[Thinlómien]

Come on, isn't the idea of WK returning say in the Fourth Age intriguing? Long ago, Noggie made me and my sister (A Little Green) a Fourth Age ME RPG and in it the disappearance of the heir to the throne of Dale (or something like that) was speculated to be doings of the Nazgûl. I remember the very eerie feeling when a NPC said that something like "doesn't their evil spirit still linger on earth? Some new evil might have arisen them." Ok, I was something like 10 years old at that time, so maybe that's why I was so creeped out by the thought, even though I argued that the Ringwraiths were destroyed with Sauron. Later, it turned out that it was just a conspiracy made by greedy men who wanted to get power and it had nothing to do with the Ringwraits, but the idea remains rather disturbing... Not sure what my point is here, I've been very nostalgic this evening...

Anyway, I don't see it as an impossibility that the Nazgûl would reappear at the later ages, if aroused by some new evil, but they could never again regain their status as the most terrifying beings of the age, meaning even if they returned, they would be far weaker and wouldn't maybe play such a big part in the course of events.

Hey, I've never thought of this before, but wasn't their death when Sauron fell a sort of release for them? They were not bound to the half-life they had nor to Sauron's servitude with almost no mind of their own. I never considered LotR from that perspective before. "The Salvation of Ringwraiths", now wouldn't that be anice title for the last book? I would be ready to grant the foolish lords who accepted the rings their rest and peace, but I don't know if this was what Tolkien thought. Though the themes of mercy and pity are strongly present in LotR, are we supposed to assume that was extended to the Ringwraits as well? Did they get rest or were they spirits somehow bound to M-E so that they would be aroused if evil returned?

But none of this speculation does good to me, now I'm itching to develop a RPG of some high lord dabbling with black magic becoming a Ringwraith and how his household goes down with him... I can see it...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

While the W-K was not 'killed' but 'reduced to impotence' on March 15, he and the other Eight all died on March 25. Only the power of the Rings extended their semi-'life' beyond mortal span: after that their spirits/souls/fear were in the same condition as other dead Men. Perhaps they went to Mandos and then onward; perhaps (as T suggests in Myths Transformed) they were so inured to evil as to refuse the summons, and remained to haunt the earth as ghosts. In either case, though, they were dead, and not coming back.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Come on, isn't the idea of WK returning say in the Fourth Age intriguing?

Oh Lommy! Should I send a photo of Tolkien to you?!??

Hey, I've never thought of this before, but wasn't their death when Sauron fell a sort of release for them? They were not bound to the half-life they had nor to Sauron's servitude with almost no mind of their own. I never considered LotR from that perspective before. "The Salvation of Ringwraiths", now wouldn't that be anice title for the last book? I would be ready to grant the foolish lords who accepted the rings their rest and peace, but I don't know if this was what Tolkien thought.

I believe when the Rings were gone, they were at last free so they could do whatever they want, meaning, they had free will. However, I believe even their free will was to side with Sauron in the beginning (or at least most of them - though Gandalf implies some might have had good heart originally). Nevertheless, after such a long enslavement, I don't believe they were able to return to the "good side". And, and that's the main point, their life, or unlife, rather, was held only by the Rings, resp. the Ring. I believe that at the moment the One was destroyed and they killed, they died (as WCH with whom I crossed due to my WW issues rightly said).

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Oh Lommy! Should I send a photo of Tolkien to you?!??

No, thanks. Even though, I wonder, if I had his photo as a desktop picture would I write less uncanonical nonsense?

I believe when the Rings were gone, they were at last free so they could do whatever they want, meaning, they had free will. However, I believe even their free will was to side with Sauron in the beginning (or at least most of them - though Gandalf implies some might have had good heart originally). Nevertheless, after such a long enslavement, I don't believe they were able to return to the "good side". And, and that's the main point, their life, or unlife, rather, was held only by the Rings, resp. the Ring. I believe that at the moment the One was destroyed and they killed, they died (as WCH with whom I crossed due to my WW issues rightly said).

I don't know if you misunderstood me, or if I misunderstood you, but I was referring to their death as them finding rest & peace at last. As to the salvation... that sure is another issue that concerns the ultimate fate of Men and Ilúvatar's possible mercy.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

No, thanks. Even though, I wonder, if I had his photo as a desktop picture would I write less uncanonical nonsense?

I have to say, I used to have him on desktop, once, when I started my current RPG campaign, so looks that it worked...

I don't know if you misunderstood me, or if I misunderstood you, but I was referring to their death as them finding rest & peace at last. As to the salvation... that sure is another issue that concerns the ultimate fate of Men and Ilúvatar's possible mercy.

Oh, yes, then - of course, then we meant the same thing. I was not sure whether you are referring to them as live or dead.

[Gwathagor]

Yep. When the Ring went, so did the Ringwraiths. We won't be seeing them again.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by The Might

Túrin was dead and still we learn that he will eventually kill Melkor.

YES! That's the 2nd coolest thing I've heard all week! Where does it say that, in which book?