HOB - Chapters into Scenes Weekly

[Sauron the White]

What songs would you put in or keep out from the Dwarves at Bag-end?

[zxcvbn]

From what I've heard PJ wants to incorporate the White Council subplot so as to let us see 'the big picture' that was happening in Middle-earth while Bilbo and co went off on their merry adventure. As such, I think the intro should be like that of FOTR.

1.Gandalf/Galadriel narratting the fall of Sauron and his rise in Dol Guldur. Gandalf dsicussing how Saruman has been blocking attempts to drive out Sauron (foreshadowing Saruman's fall) and commenting on the dangerous state of the North. The meeting Thorin at Bree. Thorin asks his help and they start plotting.

2.Second intro, sorta like 'Concerning Hobbits' in FOTR EE. Bilbo narrating something like 'Every journey has a first step' and 'In a hole in a ground lived a Hobbit' and we cut to Bilbo somiking and Gandalf arrives and so on. Thorin comes, explains his story(with flashbacks scene).

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

What songs would you put in or keep out from the Dwarves at Bag-end?

I think that there mountain song should be shortened, but still kept in. And I absolutely love the Crack the Plates song, so that should most certainly be in there.

[Sauron the White]

In the first chapter there are two songs - the crack the plates tune which is light and whimsical and then the Dwarves all play their instruments and play the song which starts "Far over the misty Mountains cold......"

In the book, they are very close together. Would two songs so early be too much here? Would the crack the plates tune be better just reduced to a couple of dwarves joking with Bilbo and it only lasts a few lines to get the point across?

And what about musical instruments. Most appear to be fine although I do notice the disturbing appearance of a clarinet. Disturbing because the clarinet was not invented until the 18th century. Would a recorder be a sutiable substitute?

When the Dwarves sing their longer song, how much of it would you retain? And would we see them singing the whole thing or would the music lead into flahbacks illustrating the events of which the Dwarves are singing about.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Sauron, good observation on the anachronism of clarinets* in the Dwarven instrumental ensemble. In his essay on musical instruments in Middle-earth (footnote on reed woodwinds), David J. Finnamore writes:

Tolkien called them "clarinets", an instrument not invented until the time of Bach and not in widespread use until the time of Mozart; I take him to mean something like "crumhorns," or "chalumeaus," the medieval ancestor of the clarinet.

The flutes that are named by Tolkien may well be what we now call recorders; I'm not sure he would necessarily have meant a transverse flute, at least not in its modern orchestral form.

If any of you know the BBC version of the Hobbit, what is your opinion of the music used for the Dwarves there? I find it hard to believe that a race with such precise and exquisite craftsmanship would play off-key. In a different system of tonality, yes, that is very much possible, just as we have different systems in various cultures of our world. But I cannot imagine them to be bad musicians! Anyone who takes his instrument on a trip of that magnitude has to be dedicated and must have developed some skill in playing it.

So, to answer your question, I would give the Dwarves a different tonal system, slightly haunting perhaps, to make their music sound foreign to our ears as it must have sounded to Bilbo. And I would like to see the comical "plates" song used in as much length as possible, then have the other one begun a bit later and perhaps echoed at various points of the story, as it fits into the action or flashbacks. It could even have a "leitmotif" function for the Dwarves during the whole movie.


*I suspect that Tolkien chose clarinets just for the fun of having them "hidden" between the walking sticks! That could make for a cute image in a movie.

[Sauron the White]

Estelyn.. thank you for contributing that information. Very valuable and useful.
I cannot help it but when I think of a dwarf playing a clarinet I get this image of Woody Allen in his old world Jewish garb from LOVE AND DEATH playing at Preservation Hall.

I like the idea of the longer Dwarf song coming back throughout sections of the movie. And I think Howard Shore would like that also.

[Kath]

I would love for the film to open with Bilbo smoking outside his front door. The first line of TH is so iconic so I'd like it to start with that.

That said, I actually think the idea of starting it with Gollum losing the Ring is good, except of course that he doesn't know that he's lost it yet. However, as they're going to have to match what happens in this film to what happened in FotR they may be able to work around this. For example, Gollum discovers that he's lost his Ring, Bilbo picks it up, Gollum leaves his island to come look for it and finds Bilbo instead who is carrying Sting and therefore has some leverage over Gollum. So it could be possible, though even so I'd rather it start quietly in the Shire.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

I didn't think that the BBC adaptation of TH was very good... but thats just me... I think that the Dwarves need to have a more haunting tune as well, but I am crazy I suppose!