What was Shelob, and more importantly, what was Ungoliant?

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

An interesting idea with Tom Bombadil, but I always considered Ungoliant a Maia and nothing I saw this far opposes it.

But then wouldn't that mean that her children, including Shelob, would be Maia. I'm not sure how that would work.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

But then wouldn't that mean that her children, including Shelob, would be Maia. I'm not sure how that would work.

Well, if we stayed with this assumption, what about Melian being Maia and her child being the most beautiful of the Elves? Similarly, Ungoliant as Maia could give birth to offspring of the nastiest of all spiders, which surely was true: not Maiar anymore, but also not "normal" spiders, but spiders of the size of a dog (in the degraded version of her grandchildren) or larger (Shelob).

[Nerwen]

My take on this: the line "one of those whom he had corrupted to his service" strongly suggests Ungoliant is an Ainu (if not necessarily a Maia). I think you have to really strain to make it mean anything else.

However, I also believe that is a fairly late concept on Tolkien's part, and that in earlier versions his spider-monster was a being created of darkness or mist or whatever. This is just from memory, though.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

My take on this: the line "one of those whom he had corrupted to his service" strongly suggests Ungoliant is an Ainu (if not necessarily a Maia). I think you have to really strain to make it mean anything else.

*overlooks the others with the expression of superiority in his face*

[Nerwen]

Actually, now that I've found my copy of the Silm, the line is "one of those THAT he corrupted to his service". Not that this changes the sense.