Think about it. Please.

[Sauron the White]

WCH - its been a long time since I took afreshman course in Logic and learned all those names like Appeal to Authority, and False Dichotomy and all the other stuff that nobody in the real world uses outside of professors and attorneys. Thank you for reminding me that such arcane knowledge still exists.

Yeah and oranges and orange juice have a lot of overlap also. But they are not the same thing. They do not have the same qualities. The norms that you apply to judge one do not apply to the other. And there are hundreds of more examples just like that.

It is what it is. And it is not what it is not.

You simply do not want to stop comparing the books to the movies and use the criteria of what makes the books great in doing it.

Your complaint about the films should be directed to the afterlife in care of JRRT himself. None of this would come up and be discussed had he not sold those rights of his own free will and completely and totally gave up any involvement, input or control of any kind. If Peter Jackson desecrated the book LOTR then it was JRRT that gave him all the ungodly weapons to perform that unholy function.

Different scenes - different characters - a change of ones character - change in plot - changes in narrative - changes in anything you want to mention.... it was all given to New Line by JRRT himself.

Reminds me of what my father used to tell me when I blamed others for my troubles. "When you point the finger of blame at sombody else, there are three of your own fingers pointing right back at you. "

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Yeah and oranges and orange juice have a lot of overlap also. But they are not the same thing.

I still expect my orange juice to taste like it came from an orange, not from a grapefruit.

[Sauron the White]

If you buy an award winning orange juice that is #1 in the marketplace but you do not like the taste .... I wonder where the problem really lies?

[Boromir88]

If you buy an award winning orange juice that is #1 in the marketplace but you do not like the taste .... I wonder where the problem really lies?

Certainly not with the individual who has his/her own personal tastes. I don't like wedding soup, and you can give me the opinions of 500 million people who adore wedding soup (among them several of the world's most prestigious taste testers), I still wouldn't like wedding soup...simple as that.

What you are essentially suggesting is a slave like obedience, and worship, of Peter Jackson because he directed 3 movies that millions adored and it won a lot of awards. Might as well start making robots of us all.

[Sauron the White]

from Sauron the White

If you buy an award winning orange juice that is #1 in the marketplace but you do not like the taste .... I wonder where the problem really lies?

the reply from Boromir88

Certainly not with the individual who has his/her own personal tastes. I don't like wedding soup, and you can give me the opinions of 500 million people who adore wedding soup (among them several of the world's most prestigious taste testers), I still wouldn't like wedding soup...simple as that.

Oh really? The problem lies with what then? Certainly not the maker of the juice which pleases an extremely wide audience and is very profitiable for that company. Certainly not with the orange juice experts who praise it and bestow their highest awards upon it.

Of course you have a right to like or not like anything you decide to and need not justify it or explain it. Films, juice and soup included.

But then lets not pretend that everyone else is marching out of step and you are not the exception to the rule.

What you are essentially suggesting is a slave like obedience, and worship, of Peter Jackson because he directed 3 movies that millions adored and it won a lot of awards. Might as well start making robots of us all.

Not al all. Everyone is free to like or not like what they want to.

But again, look at the article that Estelyn quoted from Encyclopedia of Arda on the publics love of the movies and some book critics loathing of it:

From viewers who have never read the original books, the response seems to be almost universally positive. For those of us who know Tolkien's tales well, though, while we can certainly enjoy the movie on its own level too, it's probably true to say that there's a general sense of discomfort at its distance from the original work.

You mention wedding soup. Fine - I understand that. Allow me my comparison - Coca cola soft drink. I hate the stuff. From my first taste as a little kid all the way through my mid life, I have abhored the stuff as swill. But I do accept a few undeniable facts of reality in this world.

Coke is the most popular soft drink on the planet selling more of its product than any other in countries all aroudn the world.
It is so popular that it is the single most recognizable brand name on the planet and its logo alone is valued at several billion dollars.
This soft drink which I find terrible tasting, is loved by hundreds of millions of people who have made the company that makes it a very rich one and its stockholders very happy with their investments.

But I still do not like it.

But I accept that I am the odd duck here. I accept that I am the one marching badly out of step. I accept that my tastes in this matter are different and out of sync with the vast majority of this world.

I do not attempt to rail against the Coca cola company and their product. I do not attempt to convert anyone to my anti-coke tastes. I do not go on any crusade to destroy their good name. I do not put forth my opinions on coke centered message boards and argue with its fans about the product.

I accept reality and acknowledge my that my tastes in this matter are the thing that prevents me from enjoying a product that so very many more people love.

But alas, this is this. This is not something else. This is the movies section of a Middle-earth discussion board. Not orange juice... not wedding soup... not soft drinks. So here is the on topic question that is at the heart of all this.

Is in depth knowledge about the actual writings of JRRT a help or a handicap in appreciating the movies of Peter Jackson? There is something to ponder.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Same old, same old, still going in circles. How many threads do I have to close before this topic is finally dead?

William, Sauron, I am closing this thread temporarily to prevent further hijacking. Take your differences to PM - you are monopolizing this discussion, thereby preventing others from posting. A lot of members prefer to avoid such animosity, and I would like to see others given a chance to post their opinions.

This could be an interesting thread - it started off well enough, but now it's in the same old rut again. I will open it within a day, and I expect the two of you to keep off it until at least ten other people have posted!!

You may not turn the Downs into your private playground - you are welcome to start a forum of your own where you can make the rules and post about your topics as much as you want! [end rant]

[Boromir88]

Oh really? The problem lies with what then?~Sauron the White

You just answered my point.

A producer's job is to create a product that consumer's will like, will purchase, they're ultimate goal is to make a profit. If the producer has the #1 selling orange juice (or in this case makes 3 extremely successful movies), the producer has done his/her job.

But if a certain consumer does not like the orange juice, whatever their reasons be, then wouldn't the consumer have the right to say "Hey, I don't like this?" Is the producer going to care? Most likely not, if the producer is making a profit. Is the consumer going to care that he/she doesn't like the #1 selling orange juice? Most likely not, I would hope the consumer would get the orange juice they like.

Who is at fault? No one. The producers did their job. And if the consumers don't like it (even if it be one person) they're free to keep it to themselves, or share that displeasure with others...hence one purpose of a forum.