A Request for Vacation Assistance

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

The English apparently cannot fathom this sort of manners/eating/fare and so we were unable to experience such spontaneity and free form cuisine in England. On t'other hand, it is possible to find great pub fare in the Septre'd Isle, if one looks for it.

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Are you saying that the English do not know how to picnic? Utter balderdash .... the smallest bit of sunshine will have us eating al fresco whether it be a sandwich on a bench or something involving hampers (and possibly a butler at Ascot or Glyndebourne..the former is more my style... I raided the delicatessen's of St Giles rather than fork out the extortionate price of an Oxonmoot lunch and have pictures of a picnic I went on in the Bois de Boulogne in sub zero temperatures - the French were the ones giving us funny looks. I even have a little insulated backpack kitted out with a picnic set and wine glasses and even napkins for more planned occasions.

So Bethberry, will it be swords or pistols?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

So Bethberry, will it be swords or pistols?

Oh, I would suggest pistolets as eminently preferable, particularly if you bring your butler along to do the toting and serving. And perhaps we can include a bottle of port courtesy of Gordon's in London.

Originally Posted by Lal

You clearly didn't stray within 100 yards radius of a branch of Greggs, a Northerner or a working class person then?

Well, I did bring a piece of coal to Newcastle--flung it out the open train door as we drove through. Does that count as North?

I had been wondering if it was the late season of our trip--long past the strawberries and cream of -- is it Wimbleton or Ascot? My chapeau was also a wee bit modest compared to some of the English accoutrements I saw.

[Mithalwen]

Gordon's do gin ... and very well. Cockburns for port but I can't stand the stuff so you can bring your own... and I am afraid Butler is dead (ex-faithful hound of solemn demeanour). Pistols are a good choice for a bullet may go anywhere whereas a sword will almost certainly go somewhere...

[Nogrod]

As a Finn I must make the obvious question: why Stockholm as you could make it to Helsinki as well?

And if the 'downers are scarce in Stockholm you will find a host of them in Helsinki: Spawn, Lommy, Volo, Aganzir, A Little Green...

So just give us your schedual and we'll try to arrange you people and things to see. And if you happen to need a place to overnight I might easily accomodate you so that you could save that money to spend somewhere else...

And even the famous Michael Jackson (not the singer!) thought Finland's pubs were supreme!

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

As a Finn I must make the obvious question: why Stockholm as you could make it to Helsinki as well?

And if the 'downers are scarce in Stockholm you will find a host of them in Helsinki: Spawn, Lommy, Volo, Aganzir, A Little Green...

So just give us your schedual and we'll try to arrange you people and things to see. And if you happen to need a place to overnight I might easily accomodate you so that you could save that money to spend somewhere else...

And even the famous Michael Jackson (not the singer!) thought Finland's pubs were supreme!

I would love to see Finland and will definitely do so in the (hopefully) near future. We could not fit it in this time, unfortunately. The Stockholm excursion is a bit of an extravagance and was not originally planned, but when I discovered that Einsturzende Neubauten was going to be playing a concert there three days after we arrived in London I had to make it work. I really regret that we will not be seeing much more, but this is our first trip and will not be our last; in fact, if plans do not change, we will be returning for a week in Oktober to make up for missing Munich (wheeeee!), Prague, and Vienna. A third trip to do the proud lands of Scandinavia justice will almost certainly be happening within the year after that, and sometime later we will finally be able to explore the south of France and the rest of the Mediterranean.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

As an ardent Londoner and European, I have to ask, oblo, what led you to your choice of cities? I've never been to Hamburg....but Mr Lalaith has and he says that other than quite a pretty lake there's not much going on.

Well London was a given and Paris was top priority for my wife; Stockholm came about by happy accident as I explained above. Ireland has always figured prominently in my fantasies, which is why we are spending a disproportionate amount of time there. Hamburg is a result of a desire to see at least something German, combined with a cheap flight from Stockholm and not being too far out of the way. Hamburg is actually not the attraction, and this is the only location that we currently have plans for renting a car: we will be driving through more rural German areas (I dream of rural Germany and France nearly as much as Ireland) and hopefully down to Burg Eltz. Well, here's the current draft of the itinerary:

Arrive Apr 24 to London; 25 London; 26 London; 27 London to Stockholm for concert (morning flight, evening concert); 28 Stockholm to Hamburg (evening flight); 29 Hamburg to Eltz by rental car; 30 Eltz proximity to Brussels; 1 train from Brussels (afternoon) to Paris to spend our 4th anniversary dinner there; 2 Paris; 3 Paris; 4 Paris to Dublin; 5-8 Ireland (more specific plans are not yet laid but we will most likely be spending all of our Ireland time on the west side of the island--Galway and Dingle are two possibilities); 9 Back in Dublin in time to fly back to London; 10 depart London for home at 08:00.

Bold indicates what is paid for and unchangeable; everything else might be modified.

I realize that a lot is missing. I wish we had a month this time, but we just could not do more than the 17 days (including travel time) we have planned.

Again, I really appreciate all this feedback. I will definitely be compiling a list from these posts.

[Lalaith]

Stockholm:
Skansen and the Vasa museum, boat rides around the islands and the underground food market at Hatorget.

Brussels has some very good bars, or at least it did when I was last there, some years ago now I admit. There was a lovely one shaped just like a 1920s ocean liner (Archiduc), and another which was done up in ultra-goth style, ashtrays like coffins etc. (Le Cercueil)

In Paris, I, like Lush, love Pere Lachaise. Sainte Chapelle is beautiful. Restaurant-wise I rather like Le Procope, which claims to be the oldest restaurant in the city (1686) and has rather a fun and raffish 18th century interior, not hugely expensive either.
As for London....lots of things already said (Gordons is fab) but I would add that despite, or even because of, the opulent naffness, Harrods is always worth a visit - the food hall, the Di and Dodi fountain and the Egyptian staircase are a hoot. And go on one of those open-top bus rides, they are fun and will show you most things you need to see. Walk around the Serpentine in Hyde Park, visit the old Reading Room at the British Museum, and see Hampton Court if you can. Mo Tearoom in Heddon Street, (behind Regent Street, next door to the posh restaurant Momo) is a really good little secret to know about, dead cheap, tasty Moroccan food and very atmospheric.

As an ardent Londoner and European, I have to ask, oblo, what led you to your choice of cities? I've never been to Hamburg....but Mr Lalaith has and he says that other than quite a pretty lake there's not much going on.
Personally, I feel that the most tremendous city in Europe, possibly even more marvellous than London, is Rome.

[Gwathagor]

Don't plan on trying to see all of the Louvre, because it's too big. If you MUST see the Mona Lisa, go early and make it the very first thing you see.

The Sewer Tour is really interesting if you've read Les Miserables.

I agree with Lalaith: Sainte Chapelle is splendid. Smaller than Notre Dame, but better stained glass.

If you like military history, Les Invalides is the place to go. They also have the Tomb of Napoleon.

The Pantheon is worth seeing, as is the Cluny museum. Jardin des Plantes has a cool zoo.

The Buttes Chamont park is nice; it used to be a huge sewage dump until the 1860's, so it has lots of tunnels and crazy hills and a nice artificial lake.

I don't remember London as well. The Tower of London is obviously a must-see (sooo many weapons!), and if you get a chance to visit the British Museum of Natural History, look closely for my finger-prints on the Rosetta Stone. They're there. They're not supposed to be, but they're there.

[Lalwendë]

The west of Ireland is apparently fantastic - I've not been (I suspect I would not come back) but my brother goes all the time, being fond of the horse racing, the drinking and the Irish friendliness. If you plan to go anywhere near Kenmare in Kerry (close to the Dingle) I'll ask him which the good pubs are. Apparently some pubs are sneaky and do two sorts of Guinness - one for 'tourists' and one for 'locals' which is stronger. It's all very friendly - my mother and auntie ended up having their tea in a priest's house after talking to him in a churchyard they were looking in for graves of relatives. It rains though. A LOT.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Well, I did bring a piece of coal to Newcastle--flung it out the open train door as we drove through. Does that count as North?

I had been wondering if it was the late season of our trip--long past the strawberries and cream of -- is it Wimbleton or Ascot? My chapeau was also a wee bit modest compared to some of the English accoutrements I saw.

I'm beginning to wonder if you went to Newcastle at all now It's the home of Greggs and eating in the open air is compulsory, preferably after the clubs shut, and involving a kebab, chips, and curry, possibly all at once and eaten off a massive Stottie Cake. Plus Geordies (and most Northerners in general) are well known for their hardiness and rarely go out in a coat at night (or indeed very much at all, lasses are often struck by the nasty affliction known as Corned Beef Legs due to their skimpy frocks in near zero temperatures) - who needs a wussy coat when you've got a toasty warm beer jacket?

Now I'm offering the alternative England to Mithalwen's vision of Gordons Gin and Hampers

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Plus Geordies (and most Northerners in general) are well known for their hardiness and rarely go out in a coat at night (or indeed very much at all, lasses are often struck by the nasty affliction known as Corned Beef Legs due to their skimpy frocks in near zero temperatures) - who needs a wussy coat when you've got a toasty warm beer jacket?

I noticed this when I went out for drinks this christmas, it was weird and very silly.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Now I'm offering the alternative England to Mithalwen's vision of Gordons Gin and Hampers

Oi I did point out that a sandwich on a park benchwas more my end of a picnic spectrum but I have to admit my screen name elsewhere is "ginslinger" and not entirely ironically... and I love greggs .. but their offers are lethal top the waistline ... We always used to holiday in Cornwall when I was a kid and the typical picnic was a pastie and a saffron cake..
Oh the Sainte Chapelle is fabulous - I went to a friend's concert there so got in free

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Now I'm offering the alternative England to Mithalwen's vision of Gordons Gin and Hampers

And now we all are indebted to the both of you for proving yet again what a class ridden country Old Blighty still is.

[Brinniel]

Well I may not be a native, but I just got back from Belgium and I can tell you it's a very lovely place. Of course in Brussels the most important thing is to see the Grand Place at night as it's very beautiful. If you appreciate music at all, I strongly recommend visiting the Musical Instrument Museum; it's both a visual and auditory experience unlike anything I've been to. When it comes to pubs, I would suggest trying L'Mort Subite (Sudden Death). I promise you won't experience sudden death, though I'm sure you'd agree it's quite appropriate for a Downer to visit. Anyways, it's a really nice little place with good drinks and a relaxed atmosphere. Now if you go to Belgium, I recommend you also visit Bruges for a day. It's a beautiful place without the big city feeling, though it is pretty touristy (it wasn't so much when I went, but that's because it's out-of-season). If you do go there, there's a restaurant called De Hobbit and a pub called Bistro Tolkien as I've mentioned in another thread...

I'd also like to thank everyone for all the advice. Studying abroad in Europe, I'm planning to do a lot of traveling myself, and I'm finding some of this quite helpful. Perhaps I should take advantage of this thread and list where I'm going too...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

And now we all are indebted to the both of you for proving yet again what a class ridden country Old Blighty still is.

I am beginning to think Bethberry is much, much older than she seems and was last here around the time of the Diamond jubilee Gin ain't necessarily upmarket ... for all you know I am more Hogarthian than MCC.

However Lal you say it is my vision but I think you'll find it was your dream....

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=794

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I am beginning to think Bethberry is much, much older than she seems and was last here around the time of the Diamond jubilee Gin ain't necessarily upmarket ... for all you know I am more Hogarthian than MCC.

Bethberry is as old or as young, as decrepit or as sprightly, as ugly or as pretty, as silly or as sober, as any wish to imagine her, there being no restrictions on imagination, interneted or otherwise.

With only two days for London, there won't be much chance to see much. There's lots of Old English relics and antiquaries at the British Museum, but why lock yourself up in a building (as neat as it might be) when there's so much more to explore outside?

Street markets are great fun--Camden Market and Portobello are probably the best known ones. There is also a market beside St. Martin's in the Field church on Trafalgar Square. If you are in that part of town, visit St. Martin's. The Crypt has a good cafe with a shop offering brass rubbings. Good music concerts there. It's essentially just around the corner (as I recall) from Gordon's Wine Bar and on the edge of the theatre district. Heavens! Is the Lord of the Rings musical still playing?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

And Trafalgar Square is definitely a must-see spot for first-time visitors! I agree with Bb - it's much more interesting (and cheaper!) to walk around a city than to spend all day inside.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Heavens! Is the Lord of the Rings musical still playing?

It is.

In Paris the rue Cler has (or had) a classic street market and the best bakery I found if youare going walkabout. In London, the "City" ie the square mile has all these fantastic churches and monuments in the midst of the business activity.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Street markets are great fun--Camden Market and Portobello are probably the best known ones.

A big chunk of Camden Market burned down last night, plus the Hawley Arms.

I'm betting it was the lingering miasma of hairspray from all the goffs who were out shopping for Cyberdog gear on the Saturday that spontaneously combusted when Amy Winehouse was observing the pub smoking ban and flicked her tab end over the back wall of the Hawley Arms beer garden. She'll have to go to rehab now.