A paradise on Middle-Earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 02-05-2008, 01:08 PM

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Originally Posted by alatar

Pre-3018, what exactly did Frodo do all day? Take walks, enjoy inns, hang out with his friends, read books. What's not to like about that?

This raises an interesting point. Perhaps "paradise" is less dependent upon geography, environment, company. Perhaps any place can be a paradise if one is, like Frodo and Bilbo, wealthy enough not to have to work to earn one's bread on the table, but instead is free to dally as one wishes or chooses.

alatar · 02-05-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

This raises an interesting point. Perhaps "paradise" is less dependent upon geography, environment, company. Perhaps any place can be a paradise if one is, like Frodo and Bilbo, wealthy enough not to have to work to earn one's bread on the table, but instead is free to dally as one wishes or chooses.

Agreed, though for some "work" and being "free to dally as one wishes or chooses" just might be the same paradisal place.

Note that, for those concerned that I'm not productive at work, my job is to hunt down missing socks and return them to their rightful owners, and so the job does have some down time while I'm analyzing and comparing sock DNA, and so I have time to post now and again while remaining fully productive.

Or maybe the Downs, being cathartic, is part of my health plan.

Bêthberry · 02-06-2008, 08:44 AM

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Originally Posted by alatar

Or maybe the Downs, being cathartic, is part of my health plan.

Well now are you saying that any paradise should include a health plan? Does Rivendell have a gymnasium or workout room? Do elves play basketball or volleyball? Would orcs be inclined to rugger or American football? Would dwarves prefer hockey as it requires the smithing of strong blades and mighty sticks?

Is a paradise in fairie the same thing as a paradise in the primary world? Or, in fact, does fairie not admit of paradise, because it is the Perilous Realm? So that, when we speak of paradise in Middle-earth, are we really just talking about our own inclinations rather than what is in Middle-earth?

alatar · 02-06-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Well now are you saying that any paradise should include a health plan? Does Rivendell have a gymnasium or workout room? Do elves play basketball or volleyball? Would orcs be inclined to rugger or American football? Would dwarves prefer hockey as it requires the smithing of strong blades and mighty sticks?

Not sure that it has to go that far. One walks wherever one goes, and that seems to impart some healthy living naturally. Elves, constantly singing and always being required to say both yea and nay, expend extra calories that way even when they aren't primping their hair. Dwarves, as posited elsewhere, have different metabolisms from us humans, and so few of them need any exercise (except fat Bombur who provides a workout for others). Orcs are underfed as a rule, and their constant nervousness of having their heads removed gives them a natural cardio workout daily - and if that fails, well, where there's a whip, there's a way. And orcs don't have many health care choices - get well or get into the pot...

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Is a paradise in fairie the same thing as a paradise in the primary world?

You've asked the right question...and no, they are different.

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Or, in fact, does fairie not admit of paradise, because it is the Perilous Realm? So that, when we speak of paradise in Middle-earth, are we really just talking about our own inclinations rather than what is in Middle-earth?

Aren't I always talking about my own inclinations?

Are we asking what our paradise is or what our paradise is if we existed within Middle Earth's confines? For some, the Shire might be Heaven - Sam, in the despair of Mordor, surely at that moment would think so. When he's first tramping along with Frodo, heaven might have been the Golden Perch. Lothlorien was no heaven on earth for poor Boromir, and Ar-Pharazôn found Aman not to his liking.

Where is fancy bread?