Or no Hobbits at all...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

If the Estate is in fact legally owed millions of dollars, it would be a breach of fiduciary duty for its executors not to try to enforce payment of the debt. That's a fundamental obligation imposed by the law regardless of personal feelings.

It's worth noting that The Tolkien Trust (which holds the US copyrights of LR) is the charitable arm of the Estate.

[Quempel]

I was under the impression Tolkien sold all his rights to LoTR/Hobbit, so why is the estate getting anything at all? And if he did sell all his rights, what claim can they make to NL. Doesn't Saul Zaentz own the rights? And if anything shouldn't the estate being suing him instead of NL?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Quempel

I was under the impression Tolkien sold all his rights to LoTR, so why is the estate getting anything at all?

This report has more detail http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...4S35.DTL&tsp=1

Main point is:

The lawsuit claims J.R.R. Tolkien established a trust through which he signed a film deal in 1969 with United Artists. After Tolkien's death, his heirs created the charity in the author's name.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Tolkien sold all his rights to LoTR/Hobbit, so why is the estate getting anything at all?

Well, yes, JRRT sold those rights; but the purchase price he got for them was some amount of cash up front *plus* a promised share of the income. Apparently New Line rather neglected that bit. Just like they did with Peter Jackson, and Saul Zaentz, and the actors, all of whom have had to sue New Line to get their share.

[Sauron the White]

This should be a cut and dry matter of what the contract language says the filmmakers are obligated to. Up until now, they only information I ever saw said that JRRT sold the rights for a specified cash payment. No mention of royalties or profit sharing. If the contract does include profit sharing or royalties then New Line clearly owes money to the Estate. And in that case they deserve it.

The one thing that really disturbs me is the mention of this in the story

The plaintiffs seek more than $150 million in compensatory damages, unspecified punitive damages and a court order giving the Tolkien estate the right to terminate any rights New Line may have to make films based on other works by the author, including "The Hobbit

AHHHH!!!!! So thats is then. The Estate does not want two more movies taking away all the attention that they themselves want for the books. The attention they tried to grab by agreeing to publish the CHILDREN OF HURIN as a "new book" in an obvious fraud.

If the Estate deserves money, fine.... they are entitled to it and I hope they get it. If this is just some legal ruse to abort rights that JRRT already sold and now the Estate regrets, forget them.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The attention they tried to grab by agreeing to publish the CHILDREN OF HURIN as a "new book" in an obvious fraud.

Scurrilous and beneath contempt.


*****************

This after all is the same New Line that refused to pay PJ his cut, refused to pay Zaentz his cut, refused to pay actors their cuts......


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[Sauron the White]

WCH - YOu are an attorney for heavens sake.
Go look up the definition of NEW in any dictionary. I defy you or your mods or your purists or the Estate themselves to show how a tale which has been on my shelf for year after year can be advertised as "the first new novel by JRRTolkien in thirty years".

Have we truly entered the age of Newspeak where words are defined by idealogy or belief instead of their true meaning.

I am abiding by the rules here 100%.
It is your post which is

Scurrilous, beneath contempt, and inappropriate on this forum.

William - you are not in a court of law and I am not on trial here. I merely posted my thoughts on the highly questionable ethical decision and business practices of being party to advertising a book as NEW when it clearly was already in existence on many of our shelves. How is that any violation of the rules here?????????????

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

AHHHH!!!!! So thats is then. The Estate does not want two more movies taking away all the attention that they themselves want for the books. The attention they tried to grab by agreeing to publish the CHILDREN OF HURIN as a "new book" in an obvious fraud.

If the Estate deserves money, fine.... they are entitled to it and I hope they get it. If this is just some legal ruse to abort rights that JRRT already sold and now the Estate regrets, forget them.

Carefully avoiding the side argument....as I pointed out, they are not (CAN NOT) seeking to prevent a movie of TH or a possible sequel/sequels being made. They are attempting to prevent New Line Cinema making any further Tolkien movies - from the sound of it on the grounds that they haven't received the profits they are due from the LotR movies & probably wouldn't receive any profits from further movies - ie that New Line are abusing their rights & so should have those rights taken away from them.

None of this would prevent a Hobbit movie being made by someone else. I was just being a bit provocative with the thread title

EDIT Latest on the One Ring site seems to imply that New Line may be slapped down hard by Time Warner & reduced to making cheap 'n' nasty junk while leaving the blockbusters to Warner Brothers.

[Lalwendë]

Actually, according to today's news reports, they ARE seeking to halt The Hobbit from being made by New Line!

From The Grauniad:

In the complaint, the plaintiffs accuse the studio of "unabashed and insatiable greed" and of engaging in the "infamous practice of creative 'Hollywood accounting'."

Perhaps more worrying for Tolkien fans looking forward to seeing the planned Lord of the Rings prequel, The Hobbit, hit the big screen, the suit also calls for "a declaration from the Court that the plaintiffs have a right to terminate any further rights New Line may have to the Tolkien works under the agreements, including The Hobbit, due to the serious and material nature of the breach of the agreements".

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/stor...255880,00.html

I have highlighted the most damning statement made!

EDIT:

Story from The Times: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3354936.ece

Seems several family members are involved, plus 'two of Tolkien's children' - probably including Christopher and Priscilla.