Why did the Nazgul not succeed in Bree and on Weathertop?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

but they are able to cut the Hobbit's pillows, so they must have some physical power.

Um, no. That was Bill Ferney, the Isengarder, and (probably) Harry Goatleaf.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Um, no. That was Bill Ferney, the Isengarder, and (probably) Harry Goatleaf.

Really? What's your support for this theory?

I know, there is that thing with them being afraid of attacking the Inn, but... I am not sure whether I'd buy this. "He's a thief, he's a liar, but he's not a murderer."

[Sir Kohran]

(Okay, it's laughable beyond even disbelief in the PJ adaptation!)

Actually I think it makes some more sense there, as in the PJ adaptation Aragorn actually has a proper sword in addition to a torch.

Does anyone know why Tolkien chose to have Aragorn, supposedly the best swordsman at the time and a man on an incredibly important and dangerous mission, go virtually unarmed?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Quote:Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin
Um, no. That was Bill Ferney, the Isengarder, and (probably) Harry Goatleaf.

Really? What's your support for this theory?

'What will happen?' said Merry. 'Will they attack the inn?'
'No, I think not,' said Strider. 'They are not all here yet. And in any case that is not their way. In dark and loneliness they are strongest; they will not openly attack a house where there are lights and many people - not until they are desperate, not while all the long leagues of Eriador still lie before us. But their power is in terror, and already some in Bree are in their clutch. They will drive these wretches to some evil work: Ferny, and some of the strangers, and, maybe, the gatekeeper too.'


PJ's Ringwraiths are too corporeal, too physical: he tried to make them undead warriors rather than spectres of fear. If you think of the Black Riders as *ghosts* (cf Letter 210) they make much more sense.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

I may have missed this in my reading of the topic (wonderful sinus infection, snurfle), but it seems to me that the Nazgul, and the Witch King in particular, have a powerful reason to be afraid of Frodo at Weathertop. The WK knows the prophecy that no Man will slay him -- and here stands a hobbit, armed with an Elvish blade, calling upon Elbereth, ready to take a poke at him. It would seem ludicrous if not for the fact that on the whole, the Nazgul are bullies, maintaining power through fear, and like all bullies, they are thrown for a loop when their targets suddenly stand up and start to fight back. Frodo is a creature comparatively new to the Nazgul; how many hobbits can they have seen before they left Mordor? (And we know that they have already demonstrated that they cannot be bought, and they will show resistance when threatened, via Farmer Maggot, at least.) This is a new race to them, and though they are small, the Nazgul probably know that one of their general kind survived the dungeons of Barad-dur (I'm going from memory here, and it's a bit foggy today, but I seem to recall Tolkien saying that Sauron didn't give up on Gollum just because he didn't know more details about Baggins and the Shire; he could not break his will, such was the nature of hobbit-kind). Gollum also had possession of the One Ring for centuries, and never faded into a wraith, as the Nazgul themselves already had, long ago. Knowing these things and little else about hobbits, I would think they would want to tread carefully around them. A small creature daring to wave a sword at them would be laughable in other circumstances, but in these, especially with Frodo in possession of the One -- their ultimate master -- I believe the Nazgul would have great reason not to laugh. Rather like the ruffians in the Shire, they were not used to the sight of "fearless hobbits with bright blades."

In general, it seems to me that their attacks are not those of people in a confident position of strength; they are attacks of bullies who rule through fear. And that kind of power is always undermined when faced with true courage. Just my two cents, as ever.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

In general, it seems to me that their attacks are not those of people in a confident position of strength; they are attacks of bullies who rule through fear. And that kind of power is always undermined when faced with true courage. Just my two cents, as ever.

In the Nazgul's entire history as wraiths, not once, not once was there a successful attack on one of them - unless there were more, and by the end of the Third Age we're down to Nine. If the prophecy propped up their chief, what maintained the other eight? It is incredulous that over the long years that no one - all those chief foes of the Nazgul that *created* the bright blades carried by the hobbits - hadn't bagged one of them, and yet the Five have a time of it in a dark dell occupied by three terrified hobbits, one somewhat terrified hobbit with a Ring that is in essence a curse, and a fire-wielding Ranger.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by alatar

It is incredulous that over the long years that no one - all those chief foes of the Nazgul that *created* the bright blades carried by the hobbits - hadn't bagged one of them.

That and the fact that the person who prophesied the end of the Witch King was himself not a Man but an Elf. One would think there would have been many non-men who would have had a chance (although what was meant by "man" has certainly provoked many a heated discussion, all by itself).

But this often seems to be the nature of prophecy, and fate: seemingly endless possibilities are blown because there is an intended person (or persons) who are to fulfill the prophecy, and no one else. Thousands of others who fill the criteria can be in what seems the right place and the right time, but not succeed because they are not, in actuality, the Intended One. This could go on and on into a debate over the definitions of fate or destiny within Tolkien's work, but that's a long discussion that I've seen before, and never with what anyone felt was a satisfying conclusion. In this case, the WK himself believed in the prophecy, enough to quote it on the field of battle. By the point he faced Eowyn and Merry, I think he had seen enough of hobbits to dismiss them as a threat to himself, but if Frodo was his first encounter with one -- especially one willing to fight -- it might have given him considerable pause. As far as the others go, they do not seem to be as strong, especially in terms of leadership, as the WK. Just my impression, of course.