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#1 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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In the book it's much more straightforward: Sauron had to take the crossings, and Gondor had to defend them. Once lost, retaking themwas of course not an issue: the Men of MT fell back on the Causeway Forts- bastions covering the Road where it crossed the marshy land and passed through the gate in the Rammas- a barbican, really. It was this defense that Faramir took command of (pretty logically, given that he was now Captain-General), and in the retreat from the Causeway Forts after they fell that he was wounded. Leading that defense was not conceived as either a murder or a suicide, and quite-sane Denethor very correctly covered the retreat with a well-timed cavalry sortie. He certainly didn't throw away 200 good heavy cav on a pointless charge against prepared defenses!
Tolkien, unlike PJ, was a soldier.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#2 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In a flower
Posts: 97
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Osgiliath was strategically needed. In both WW's one of the main goals was to destroy bridges so the supplies and access would be cut off.
My main contention is that Denethor should have destroyed the access across the river before Saurons troops arrived. Faramir could have easily defended from that point. But there are so many other issues in both the book and the movie that don't make sense militarily that I don't really question them anymore. I really hated what was done to Denethor and his two sons in the movies. I never did really like Denethor in either, but the movies made him out to be worse.
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#3 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quempel, the Osgiliath bridge had been destroyed (by Boromir) the previous June. In March Sauron forced an amphibious crossing.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#4 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In a flower
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That's why I said access across the river, not bridge. There are certain things that can be done to keep boats from reaching the shore. There are certain things that can be done to shore up the shore. There are certain things that can make it impossible to cross a river except at a very narrow crossing, thus making it 'easy pickins' for the defenders. Again there are tons of military mistakes in both the books and the movies. However, having the giant eagles of Manwe fly the ring into Mt. Doom doesn't make for a good story. One of my biggest
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#5 | ||
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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Qempel, I think we can assume that Gondor tried to beef up the landing-zone defenses as best she could (although Denethor wasted manpower and time on the Rammas)- and apparently they held for two days; but with an enemy of overwhelming numerical superiority (as well as the attested morale-effect of the Black Captain), not to mention the fatigue of unrelieved troops in continuous combat- they just weren't capable of holding. There is no such thing as an impregnable position given sufficient men (and sufficient disregard for casualties). The idea that a few hundred Men of Gondor could prevent indefinitely the Morgul-Host from effecting a crossing is a non-starter.
Rommel did his level best to make Normandy 'impregnable,' remember? Quote:
Quote:
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 02-21-2008 at 02:45 PM. |
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#6 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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This being why destroying the Ring did for him.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#7 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 431
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What seems curious to me is that the last Bridge has been built not too long before the War of the Ring:
Quote:
Cast the stones of your pride into the loud river... But the other side made strange moves as well. What was the need for Sauron to attack the Bridges of Osgiliath a year before the war, in June 3018? In UT it is explained like this: Quote:
And the disadvantages were enormous. Basically Sauron gave ample warning to the Gondorians hitting a year in advance exactly in the same place where he planned his main attack for the next year. He sacrificed the Bridges, which he otherwise could have used next year. I guess the WK had a hell of a time shipping Grond and other heavy equipment over the Anduin in March 3019. |
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