Why hold'claim Osgiliath?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It was hardly giving up some secret to attack Osgiliath in June- Osgiliath was almost necessarily the main focus. Any campaign against MT from Morgul would necessarily rely on the Road and its causeway, which meant Osgiliath.

Moreover, Sauron's plan in June was to seize the Bridge, not to have it destroyed- which would indeed have been an immense prize, and which he would have gained but for Boromir and Faramir.

Tolkien himself admitted that the Nazgul/water business was 'hard to sustain'- but the basic argument, that the assault provided cover and disinformazia for the RW's hunt for the Ring, still holds up. Nor is there anything at all wrong with a reconnaisance in force to probe the enemy defenses.

[Beanamir of Gondor]

What mystifies me more than anything else about the bridge issue is that, in RotK (maybe it was only in the EE, I haven't seen the original in so long that I don't remember!) there's an image of trolls and Orcs pushing siege towers and Grond, among other things, across what is clearly a bridge, in what is clearly Osgiliath. Is it a bridge over the river, because it certainly looks like it to me! Next time I watch the movie I'll mark down the time, but it's about, eh, four or five scenes before the end of the first disc. I was mystified about this even before reading William CH, Quempel, and Gordis's posts (and having reread RotK just last week while crewing a show), because while watching the films I vaguely recalled that there was no bridge in Osgiliath... and now I'm just peeved, since I know that there definitely wasn't.

I'll have to agree with William CH, though... in the films, it came out like "a ludicrous suicide mission is the most convenient way for Insane Mean Daddy to kill off Misunderstood Younger Son." Particularly because the whole "Yes, I do wish that," scene was horrifically skewed from in the books, and Denethor really did wish his son was dead. Blahhh, don't get me started on that.

[ArathornJax]

A few things. In the book Denethor calls a council and it is decided there that the outer defenses will be defended because Denethor wants it that way. Faramir seemed to have guessed that because prior to returning to Minis Tirith, Faramir sent the company to Ithilien to Osgiliath to reinforce it.

Why defend this position? It is made clear in the book that to the south, towards Lebennin the river was too wide and north toward the island of Cair Andros the area was too marshy. Thus the crossing had to come at Osgiliath so they wanted to defend at that point.

If you look at the book vs. the movie, the tactic makes more sense. It has all the bearings of a tactical retreat, to make the enemy pay for taking territory, and to buy time for the Rohirrim to arrive (remember, they didn't know when that would occur, they had an idea, but they were not sure). Faramir spent the day retreating from Osgiliath to the outer forts on the Rammas EchorI also prefer in the book that the sortie was to rescue Faramir as he retreated with remaining out companies, and that it was made by Prince Imrahil and the knights of Dol Amroth who rescued Faramir and the remanent of the out companies. In this case the book explains why they defended Osgiliath where the movie makes it look like . . . well, William Cloud Hicklin said it better.

As far as the bridge, yes it is there. It would have been part of the original city since the heart of the city was in the middle of the river. A non-fan would not know that though who watched the movie for the first time. I guess one could assume it was repaired. The book makes it clear the initial attack is done with a build up of barges and boats. Quick repair on a stone bridge I guess. Perhaps in a the next version they can make it have a platoon section in the middle.

Finally, could Denethor have decided to defend the Pelannor and outer defenses because of what he saw in the Palantir? That Sauron wanted him to attack Osgilath in order to weaken the defenses of Minis Tirith? Just some thoughts.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

As far as the bridge, yes it is there. It would have been part of the original city since the heart of the city was in the middle of the river. A non-fan would not know that though who watched the movie for the first time. I guess one could assume it was repaired. The book makes it clear the initial attack is done with a build up of barges and boats. Quick repair on a stone bridge I guess. Perhaps in a the next version they can make it have a platoon section in the middle.

Now it set me thinking... I doubt not that the original bridge in Isildur's times and in the times of the Kings was made of stone. But what about the last (Denethor's) bridge? Likely most of it was made of wood - wooden construction resting on the ancient stone pillars. In Ecthelion's and Denethor's times, with Sauron gathering strength in Mordor, it was quite likely that the Gondorians would one day be compelled to destroy the bridge. And indeed it has happened on June 20, 3018.
But how could the Gondorians destroy a stone bridge in a matter of hours? Remember, they had no explosives - only the "bad guys" did. So, the bridge was likely wooden and Boromir and Faramir simply burned it.
But then, it was not that difficult for the Witch-King's troops to repair the bridge to allow the passage of Grond and siege towers and the cavalry.