The Scourge of The Dark Side...Tolkien and Modernism - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

tumhalad2 · 02-22-2008, 11:49 PM

haha, well, that's the question isn't it. I mean, there is something frighteningly un-human about humanism, if you catch my drift. Humanism is really what these people are talking about I suppose-a worldview unencumbered by gods or higher powers, one in which all humans are morally equal, one in which there is no 'ubermenschen', as David Brin likens the Elves to (I think that is taking it a bit far).

I want to say that I do not necessarily believe 'modernism' to be a good thing; I do believe progress, technological and otherwise, is good, and I believe that an eternal focus on the 'past' is a bad thing. Modernism is simply a highly seductive philosophy, and David Brin's technocratic utopianism is an example of that.

I suppose the greatest difficulty I have, in light of all this, is reconciling Tolkien with Humanism-the kind they talk about in this thread. Humanism appears to be their guiding, all encompassing philosophy, one that according to them Tolkien did not adhere to. Fundly enough, of coarse, there are examples in Tolkien's work where humanistic conclusions are reached, (Frodo destroying the ring, lol!) though this appears to escape these Star Wars forumers.

I read one day in a review of the Silmarillion that, quote "Tolkien repudiates humanism" with the War of Wrath; ie having the Valar interfere rather than allow the Humans to defeat Morgoth. Whether this has any merit im not sure, but undoubtedly it would add to the argument of these humanistic modernists.

Lastly I really don't know about the merits of humanism and modernism; I certainly think, nonetheless, that the world is a far more complex place than such philosophies allow for.

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02-22-2008, 11:49 PM	#4
tumhalad2 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 95	haha, well, that's the question isn't it. I mean, there is something frighteningly un-human about humanism, if you catch my drift. Humanism is really what these people are talking about I suppose-a worldview unencumbered by gods or higher powers, one in which all humans are morally equal, one in which there is no 'ubermenschen', as David Brin likens the Elves to (I think that is taking it a bit far). I want to say that I do not necessarily believe 'modernism' to be a good thing; I do believe progress, technological and otherwise, is good, and I believe that an eternal focus on the 'past' is a bad thing. Modernism is simply a highly seductive philosophy, and David Brin's technocratic utopianism is an example of that. I suppose the greatest difficulty I have, in light of all this, is reconciling Tolkien with Humanism-the kind they talk about in this thread. Humanism appears to be their guiding, all encompassing philosophy, one that according to them Tolkien did not adhere to. Fundly enough, of coarse, there are examples in Tolkien's work where humanistic conclusions are reached, (Frodo destroying the ring, lol!) though this appears to escape these Star Wars forumers. I read one day in a review of the Silmarillion that, quote "Tolkien repudiates humanism" with the War of Wrath; ie having the Valar interfere rather than allow the Humans to defeat Morgoth. Whether this has any merit im not sure, but undoubtedly it would add to the argument of these humanistic modernists. Lastly I really don't know about the merits of humanism and modernism; I certainly think, nonetheless, that the world is a far more complex place than such philosophies allow for.