Microphones in Middle-earth...the BBC Lord of the Rings

[davem]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. We've argued over this point before on other threads & I want to keep this one focussed on the radio series - of course, if you want to start up a thread on different possible approaches to adapting Tolkien to film I'd be happy to jump in.

[ArathornJax]

Today I listened to the period of Weathertop and the Lay of Luthien, to the attack by the five Nazgul, to the journey to Weathertop to the reunion with Bilbo.

Before I begin, I want to share one thing on Frodo and the Cow Jumped Over the Moon. I think it is ok for Ian Holm not to have 'sung' the song. I think that of the many wonderful characteristics of Frodo, he may not have been able to carry a tune. Then again, I am one of those people who can do a lot of things, but I cannot sing well (well, my wife says if I sing alone I have a wonderful voice!).

So today I had a little less time as I was on the cell with someone about a rather large presentation I have tomorrow.

I began with the four hobbits and Strider on Weathertop. The shadows of evening were falling and night had come on. The hobbits wanted to learn more of Gil-Galad and Frodo started, but when they go to the part on Mordor, Strider changed the subject and told them of Luthien and Beren. I really enjoyed here how Strider let them know of the lay without all the in depth details. I feel this is really in tune with the story in the FOTR. I could see the moon rising and meaning it was late; something as a backpacker and camper I can readily imagine!

As the Nazgul attacked, I realized today that their noise reminded me of a snake hiss, or even a cat hiss. Maybe some Cryptozoologist would love to decipher that sound, (any hints on what it is?), but I think it is very appropriate because it does remind me of a creature who is bold and treacherous, using every means to hunt it's prey. Not sure that is what you met, but it is what comes into my mind. It reminds me of a big cat hiss like a mountain lion, and since the Nazgul to this point seem to use cunning, their senses like smell to hunt, it might be a good connection. I imagine their actions to be almost cat like as well, bold and swift, strong and silent.

I felt that the actual attack on Weathertop was handled as I would want an adaptation to be. The main points were covered and it reached the image into my mind. A question I have here for anyone is we know that the daggers of the hobbits carried magic/spells on them that were hurtful to the Nazgul (or at least the Witchking). So was it the name of Elbereth that was hurtful by itself, or did the Witch King see the threat of the dagger and that was his fear? Perhaps a combination of both?

The journey to Rivendale was quick for me today. I need to re-listen because I thought that the part where the travellers discover Bilbo's trolls was missing. I could be wrong as I am really tired today but would love to hear if anyone else missed it? I like that part in the book and in adaptations because it links The Hobbit to the FOTR.

I am SO glad also in this part that Glorfindal's horse did not sound like sleigh bells, or a big cow bell, or Santa and his merry reindeer. I think that part is hard to come up with, a sound to distinguish Asfaloth from the horses of the Nazgul. The transition of the flood and Frodo fading to waking up with Gandalf was well handled.

I know some will differ with me, but I like the adaptation in the audio. I felt that the conversation between Frodo and Gandalf seemed to shine, and for the first time, Michael Hordern really seem to capture the role for me. He is able to show Gandalf in a variety of roles. I think for me, this is where he began to emerge in the adaptation.

Again we can see where mention to an event in the story is given a nod towards, but in earnest to move the story along the actual feast scene is only mentioned. Thus there is no Gloin interaction. Instead, Gloin's role is given to his son, Gimli. I'm fine with this as Jackson also did something similar in FOTR by showing several dwarfs with an older one with Gimli at the council. The conversation between Frodo and Bilbo in the Hall of Fire was a nice reunion and one that has to be done. I agree with this decision to keep the reunion in the adaptation and just giving a nod to the feast, with an emphasis on the most important part . . . Arwen's life and her and Aragorn's love.

Well, Sam came for Frodo so he could get his rest, and I have a rather large day tomorrow so it is off to bed for me. Tomorrow will be the Council I do believe!

Brian, I haven't added my two cents, but I want to thank you so much on a personal level for the adaptation. I love and enjoy listening to it once or twice a year and it makes a commute enjoyable. As a father and someone who was raised to read, this was a gift I wanted to give to my children. Your adaptation played a huge role in getting my kids when they were young to become readers, and I mean readers, people who digest a book and enjoy it.
More importantly, the adaptation got my kids using their imaginations to see things in their minds, and this carried over to their reading (into their play and thus into their lives). As a result, besides becoming critical thinkers, they are very, very creative. So thanks again for all your efforts. None of us never know when something we do will have an impact on someone so many years later!

Cheers!

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

I want to share one thing on Frodo and the Cow Jumped Over the Moon. I think it is ok for Ian Holm not to have 'sung' the song. I think that of the many wonderful characteristics of Frodo, he may not have been able to carry a tune.

True... I think it would have been better for him to have recited the verses... Still, unlike the film, at least it is there!!!

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

As the Nazgul attacked, I realized today that their noise reminded me of a snake hiss, or even a cat hiss. Maybe some Cryptozoologist would love to decipher that sound, (any hints on what it is?), but I think it is very appropriate because it does remind me of a creature who is bold and treacherous, using every means to hunt it's prey. Not sure that is what you meant, but it is what comes into my mind. It reminds me of a big cat hiss like a mountain lion, and since the Nazgul to this point seem to use cunning, their senses like smell to hunt, it might be a good connection. I imagine their actions to be almost cat like as well, bold and swift, strong and silent.

An interesting interpretation of the sound. If I remember rightly and my memory may well be faulty, the actors playing the Nazgul exhaled at the microphone and this sound was then 'treated' radiophonically.

My recollection is hazy, but I think that our reasoning was that the name of 'Elbereth' was what repelled the Witch King, since the knives were not those taken from the Barrows...

Except, of course, if you follow the argument put forward on this forum that the Tom Bombadil/Barrow-Downs incidents COULD have occurred but are simply not reported, then they may, indeed, have had those blades!

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

The journey to Rivendale was quick for me today. I need to re-listen because I thought that the part where the travellers discover Bilbo's trolls was missing. I could be wrong as I am really tired today but would love to hear if anyone else missed it? I like that part in the book and in adaptations because it links The Hobbit to the FOTR.

No, the trolls were omitted. Sorry. I remember being envious when I first saw the Trollshaws figures created for the Jackson film and thinking that he's done something visually that we hadn't done... But in the end, I believe, we had to wait for the extended version to see them!

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

Brian, I haven't added my two cents, but I want to thank you so much on a personal level for the adaptation. I love and enjoy listening to it once or twice a year and it makes a commute enjoyable...

...More importantly, the adaptation got my kids using their imaginations to see things in their minds, and this carried over to their reading (into their play and thus into their lives). As a result, besides becoming critical thinkers, they are very, very creative. So thanks again for all your efforts. None of us never know when something we do will have an impact on someone so many years later!

Wow... You (and everyone on this forum) are terribly kind... And now I'm going to share a small confession with you all...

For several years after TLOTR, I used to get very frustrated about being described and introduced to people as "The man who did the radio Lord of the Rings..." It was especially irksome when reviewers referred to it when writing about whatever my current project was...

I was employed to write the 'narrative' on Jeff Wayne's long-forgotten concept album, Spartacus, on the strength of LOTR... I was allowed to dramatise C S Lewis' 'Chronicles of Narnia' and, later, Mervyn Peake's Titus Groan and Gormenghast for radio because of it (and won a Sony radio Award for the Peake plays) but I was still described as "The man who....." And I resented it like H***!

Nowadays, when I can't get a single project on radio and most people in the BBC have never heard of me and haven't the faintest idea what I have done, I am rather more humble!

I have learned - as well need to do - that, for the most part in life, we do not know what effect our work or deeds have in the wider world --- which is, perhaps, the best arrangement for things!

Like Tolkien's Niggle we may aim to create the most beautiful painting of a tree imaginable, but if we are remembered for even a single leaf then that is an achievement - a blessing - for which the artist should be very grateful... And, believe me, I am!

[Essex]

Brian, sorry for going off the beaten track, but have you ever thought of using this leverage on being 'the guy who created the radio lord of the Rings' into perhaps touting the idea of making a TV mini series of Lord of the Rings, over three 'Seasons' if you like.

I remember touting this idea on the Downs here a while back. I worked out (after finding out how long the unabrdiged narrative of lotr recordings takes) that one could split the work to three 18 episode Seasons - (i.e. an hour long, with commercial breaks - so just over 40 mins an episode to make the 54 hours up that the narration takes)

I know this is pie in the sky - but have you ever thought of the idea of making an (almost) word for word adaptation of the books for TV? (re costs, maybe the DVD market could help the BBC pay for this, rather than adding to my licence fee of course!)

I even started a script on this for a laugh a year or so back - it's actually quite fun - my only issues were how, from a dramatic point of view, you show stuff in real time or how Tolkien wrote the book - ie Gandalf's escape from Orthanc and the Balrog - and Frodo and Sam in Mordor at the same time as other members of the fellowship etc.

anyway, perhaps you'd like to be known as the guy who created the TV mini series of LOTR as well as the radio adaptation!

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Essex

Brian, sorry for going off the beaten track, but have you ever thought of using this leverage on being 'the guy who created the radio lord of the Rings' into perhaps touting the idea of making a TV mini series of Lord of the Rings, over three 'Seasons' if you like.

It's a cool idea, but I've no doubt that the TV rights are now well and truly sewn-up. I'm sure they were owned by Zeantz at one time and I suspect they have passed on to New Line/United Aritists/MGM or some combination thereof... For example, a few years ago the amateur rights in 'The Hobbit' were retained by the estate (and I got permission to do a production of my own adaptation) but then, a year or eighteen months ago, those rights were signed over to Zaentz...

Besides, I'm not sue I'd have the stamina for a second quest...

[davem]

Actually what I'd really like to see is book about the series, including the full scripts, pictures, cast interviews, transcript of Christopher's pronunciation tape, etc. I suspect there would be a lot of interest in such a project. Maybe BBC Books, or Harper Collins would bite? After the slew of books about the movies (mostly by Brian himself) it would be nice to get something about the series as well. A nice large format p/b (like the movie tie-ins) with the wonderful Eric Fraser painting on the cover ....

Maybe we should start a petition....

[Estelyn Telcontar]

That's a great idea, davem! I'd buy that book for sure. "Making of.." books and documentaries are quite popular, and Tolkien fandom is large enough to make such a project financially feasible.

Now to the second CD - I'm gradually catching up. Aragorn's voice did take some getting used to for me - he's one of my most favouritest ( ) characters, and though my inner voice is vague, it definitely lets me know what's not quite right. I did get used to it though, and he sounds older and more mature than FilmAragorn.

Though I missed the bath song, among other things, it's quite understandable that it should be left out. After all, I can still read the missing passages in the book. I really enjoyed the number of songs and poems that were included as well as dialogues such as the testimony to friendship in the 'conspiracy' scene. Tolkien's words there can't be topped - "You can trust us..."

"All that is gold..." is included, which I enjoyed very much, as well as the "fair/foul" lines. I liked Sam's singing of the Gil-Galad song. And that most important moment at the Ford of Bruinen, which makes the scene infinitely better than the weakness of MovieFrodo - "By Elbereth and Lúthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" is triumphant!

I grew up in a family that read a lot, and family readings were a regular thing even when we children were able to read on our own. I dearly love the experience of being read to that these recordings give me!

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

Actually what I'd really like to see is book about the series, including the full scripts, pictures, cast interviews, transcript of Christopher's pronunciation tape, etc. I suspect there would be a lot of interest in such a project. Maybe BBC Books, or Harper Collins would bite? After the slew of books about the movies (mostly by Brian himself) it would be nice to get something about the series as well. A nice large format p/b (like the movie tie-ins) with the wonderful Eric Fraser painting on the cover ....

Maybe we should start a petition....

Yep! Good idea, Dave, except... The BBC considered the idea of a Scripts Book some years ago, but felt, in the end, that the time for TLOTR - in terms of wide-ranging, popular merchandising - was past... Sorry to keep being a wet-blanket... Who knows, maybe, if The Hobbit happens...