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Old 03-17-2008, 12:52 PM   #1
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Originally Posted by Sardy View Post
1. Was there any discussion, debate or verbal confrontation between the White Council and Sauron? Possibly before the military "assault" on Dol Guldur was launched?
You mean, any "diplomacy talks" or such things? Not sure how it would've looked like. Though maybe... well, I don't think there is anything about it. Maybe in HoME, if ever.

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2. (Apologies if this had already been addressed, I'm still reading through the thread...) Did the White Council realize that they were dealing with Sauron? Or did they think that they were driving out a previously unknown threat (i.e., "The Necromancer")? Was their goal to utterly defeat Sauraon/Necromancer? Drive him out of Greenwood? Or simply just to post-pone his inevitable re-emergence in M-e?
They knew it was Sauron since Gandalf visited Dol Guldur for the second time. Their goal was to get rid of him - definitely to prevent him from rising, to drive him away from Mirkwood, and they counted on at least diminishing his power and stopping him for several hundred or thousand years to come.

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3. When Gandalf arrived at Dol Guldur, did he explain his tardiness to the rest of the White Council in something along the lines of, "Sorry I'm late... I was just creatively re-interpreting my Istari mandate of not directly interfering by arranging the murder of (the last) dragon and instigating a War of Five Armies?"
He arrived on time - and not to Dol Guldur, but to the Council, possibly Lórien. That can be concluded from his words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by UT, The Quest for Erebor
I had to be with the White Council in August at the latest, or Saruman would have his way and nothing would be done.
Of course he didn't know that Saruman wanted to attack as well already, but that's a side issue.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:01 AM   #2
ianintheuk
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Members of the white council

I am surprised reading this that there is any confusion over Celeborn i.e. was he/was he not a member of the White council. you only have to check the Lord of the Rings itself to see confirmation that he must have been a member.

Ref Page 357 of the Harper Collins 50th Anniversary edition (Chapter "the mirror of Galadriel")

Galadriel says ' For the lord of the Galadhrim (Celeborn) is accounted the wisest of the elves of Middle-Earth'

It would be strange indeed if the white council (of the wise) excluded the wisest elf of all and husband of one of its members !!!!
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:37 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ianintheuk View Post
Galadriel says ' For the lord of the Galadhrim (Celeborn) is accounted the wisest of the elves of Middle-Earth'

It would be strange indeed if the white council (of the wise) excluded the wisest elf of all and husband of one of its members !!!!
There is no "confusion", as you put it. It would be likely, yes (although there is the argument I mentioned before - although it has probably as much value as the one you mention). But the point is that there is not explicitely written anywhere that he was a member of the Council. Strange it would be indeed, but even with your quote you can't say 100% "it is like that". Someone may still disagree and you'll have no bulletproof argument to convince him.
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