Harris Poll - America's Favourite book...

[THE Ka]

I can see The Stand being on the list, since if to find out someone I've met has read anything over the past fifteen years, for some reason its usually mentioned. Which is odd (its sheer size aside), but the way everything twist and winds this way and that with really, no direction, and how some of the characters are stubborn to no end (you end up wishing you could strangle them for being so niave and more, after putting you through nearly 1,000 pages of it). Umph.

I tried reading Mr. King's magnum opus all the way through when I was younger, but after 3/4ths of the way through it never stuck with interest. Then I found The Hobbit again, and restored to a pleasant mood.

What I'm really curious about though, considering the vast amount of book sales over the years of The Hobbit (which, commercially should make it apparent on such a poll), how it isn't mentioned at all. Unless, as with most polls, something obvious is always amiss, or how the poll was comprised wasn't big enough in demographics of diversified interest, etc.

Originally Posted by Legate

in translations - it's totally different in the original (all the literary techniques, like playing with words, alliteration etc.).

Well, even the original is at the mercy of speculation, since it was taken from a wholly different culture and language (An example, say, you can find going through art history. How with early christian to even late medieval periods Moses is depicted literally, with horns. No, not a social or theological stigma, simple mistranslation and confusion from originals. Makes for much livelier and interesting art though!!!).
Well, no more on this, the overall development of a text vs. how it is culturally used is a study in itself which would take too long to even think about here.

I dunno, I'm at least glad that people are still reading books (despite what, no surprise, other polls may say of the decline of reading them in the US), and more so Tolkien!

~ Meandering Ka

[Finduilas]

When do they do polls like this? Who actually do they send these to?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by THE Ka

What I'm really curious about though, considering the vast amount of book sales over the years of The Hobbit (which, commercially should make it apparent on such a poll), how it isn't mentioned at all. Unless, as with most polls, something obvious is always amiss, or how the poll was comprised wasn't big enough in demographics of diversified interest, etc.

Depends; but I think it may be that people - even from this sample (but cf. what I think about polls as I said above) - and even those of them who read LotR AND the Hobbit would place LotR over the Hobbit. You know, I can't help to start thinking what most of the Downers would write had we been asked to write one book which is our favourite. I dare to assume that the majority of people would write LotR, and not the Hobbit. Even myself, possibly. Simply when considering it all, you know... well, think for yourself, I don't know whether you'd pick LotR or TH.

Well, even the original is at the mercy of speculation, since it was taken from a wholly different culture and language (An example, say, you can find going through art history. How with early christian to even late medieval periods Moses is depicted literally, with horns. No, not a social or theological stigma, simple mistranslation and confusion from originals. Makes for much livelier and interesting art though!!!).

Well surely. There are lots of things still which can't be determined precisely enough (although of course most of the main things are clear enough - I am now not talking of interpretation, which is a chapter for itself and has nothing to do with this). However, what I was talking about was the very rich "arsenal" of the literary work in the original language, and that the translations, at least speaking of the indo-european (or similar) languages cannot reflect easily these minor things in the original text.

And just as a note for your interest, the horn thing can still be argued. Because actually, horns were taken by many cultures simply as an attribute of divine power. So there are scholars even today speculating that the horns may be there rightfully after all.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And just as a note for your interest, the horn thing can still be argued. Because actually, horns were taken by many cultures simply as an attribute of divine power. So there are scholars even today speculating that the horns may be there rightfully after all.

Actually, Moses was not horned. This comes from a mistranslation by Jerome in the Latin Vulgate Bible. Jerome took the Hebraic word Qaran and used it in one of its interpretations, the noun 'horn' ('Qui videbant faciem Moses esse cornutam'), but there is another derivation meaning 'to emit light' or 'shed rays' (horns of light radiating from his face, aka a halo). Qaran is used conjuctively with the phrase 'the skin of his face' (not horns on top of his head). Thus, after coming down from Mount Sinai and his meeting with Yahweh, his face was literally glowing -- so much so that he had to wear a veil so as not to frighten his people.

The Apostle Paul, in his Second Letter to the Corinthians, is quite clear about the proper definition being Moses' face shone:

And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished...

Michelangelo, steeped in esoteric Christian learning from his long stay at the scholarly court of Lorenzo De Medici, would naturally be aware of Jerome's vulgate translation of Exodus, and incorporated it in his monumental sculpture.



P.S. Please note the remarkable resemblance Moses has with Charlton Heston.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks, Davem. Kind of interesting that I match up fairly well with the "post grad" crowd, since LotR and Mockingbird are two books that do mean a lot to me.

the Jewish voter certainly would only choose the Torah (without, of course, any mention of the New Testament)

Hmm... Not the Torah only (the first five books), but perhaps the entire Tanakh (equivalent to the OT)

It's also interesting and not surprising how many of the authors in this list are "Americans".

To me, the critical question is this. How many of the people who cited the Bible as their first choice actually read and/or studied it in any depth? Or did they list it because they "feel" it should be their first choice, even if their particular exposure to the scriptures (whatever version they prefer) is more limited? Undoubtedly, some respondents fall in the first group and some in the latter, and I would hesitate to put numbers or percentages on either subset.

Perhaps a more interesting angle is how JRRT would have responded to a question of this type. Most likely, he would have growled at the asker and asked him to take a hike, pointing out that any query framed in such vague terms was clearly of dubious value.

First, exactly what is a "book"? Would JRRT's beloved medieval texts be excluded or included in such a framework? Would the author have listed the Bible as his first choice, given the fact that he was a devout Catholic? Then again, as a Catholic, he surely would want to consider the Bible not as an isolated piece but in the context of other important Catholic works and annals of church history. Or would JRRT have made a neat list of favorite novels that were relatively current and just left it at that? Somehow, I do not think that these particular titles would have been on his list.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Actually, Moses was not horned. This comes from a mistranslation by Jerome in the Latin Vulgate Bible.

I was not saying if the text said whether he was or was not horned, but I was making a remark that interestingly, there can be people found who stand behind the opinion that he was horned. This is not the topic of this thread anyway.

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

First, exactly what is a "book"? Would JRRT's beloved medieval texts be excluded or included in such a framework?

I actually think that these responses differ from each other as much as individuals differ, I think there will be people who would like to nominate some medieval text or something - if they really liked the text, they would simply write it. If I liked something, I would write it there not caring what it is - as long as it is a written text. That of course also depends on what exactly was the question of the poll, whether f.ex. there was some closer determination like "a text of 50-1500 pages" or "a text which was issued in one book" (still, using the already named example, one could for example write just Psalms or something as part of Bible). I'll leave this to your imagination, but you see the lines along which I am thinking.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I was not saying if the text said whether he was or was not horned, but I was making a remark that interestingly, there can be people found who stand behind the opinion that he was horned. This is not the topic of this thread anyway.

So, you are saying your comment regarding a horned Moses was in context, whilst mine was not? *shrugs*

Actually, my post hearkens back to earlier comments by myself and others regarding the mistranslation and misinterpretation of the bible (which I guess could be construed as out-of-context as well, strictly speaking).

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I actually think that these responses differ from each other as much as individuals differ, I think there will be people who would like to nominate some medieval text or something - if they really liked the text, they would simply write it. If I liked something, I would write it there not caring what it is - as long as it is a written text. That of course also depends on what exactly was the question of the poll, whether f.ex. there was some closer determination like "a text of 50-1500 pages" or "a text which was issued in one book" (still, using the already named example, one could for example write just Psalms or something as part of Bible). I'll leave this to your imagination, but you see the lines along which I am thinking.

In any event, I see we can all agree (whether wholly or in part) that the Harris Poll survey question was vague, and the results left something to be desired.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

So, you are saying your comment regarding a horned Moses was in context, whilst mine was not? *shrugs*

I was not saying anything like that. I merely intended to make a point reminding that the topic is not the main topic of this thread, so we should be aware of continuing on that (and I also hope this is the last reply I do to this one).

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

P.S. Please note the remarkable resemblance Moses has with Charlton Heston.

[davem]

Just to update everyone - I think one group was missed out of the survey http://sacnoths.blogspot.com/2008/04...uantanamo.html

Oh & speaking of Charlton Heston - can we assume they've got his guns now?

[Gwathagor]

Too soon.