Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 04-12-2008, 12:57 PM

Our PM post never got started, so it's up to you and me. I'll write as the inspiration comes. You do the same. We'll see how it threads together. Since there's only two of us (for all practical purposes) we can edit in whatever we want wherever we want.

As far as researching dreams, perhaps an advanced Search on dreams might be doable with a very tight "from-to" set. That way we may be able to access what we need without having to search the entire haystack.

Regarding Mithrellas, I recently learned something important about the nature of self-sacrifice. It goes like this: Jesus was able to face his passion & crucifixion on 2 bases: (1) his love for us, and (2) they joy that awaited him. Remember, he gave up all the glory of his deity when he came, so he faced it as a human without sin. Similarly, Aragorn was able to live a long life of self-sacrifice for love of Gondor, Hobbits, Arwen, Gandalf, and many others; and for the joy that awaited him once all was achieved.

So we have precedent from two good sources for Mithrellas. If she is nothing else, she is strong. She has been able to keep her hope alive throughout a millenium of her Lady's despair, and she has been able to keep her mind safe from the wiles of Tharonwe; not only the wiles, but he didn't even know she existed! That is strong! And noble! And pure. Holy, even. You do see where I'm going with this?

mark12_30 · 04-12-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

So we have precedent from two good sources for Mithrellas. If she is nothing else, she is strong. She has been able to keep her hope alive throughout a millenium of her Lady's despair, and she has been able to keep her mind safe from the wiles of Tharonwe; not only the wiles, but he didn't even know she existed! That is strong! And noble! And pure. Holy, even. You do see where I'm going with this?

Not yet, but I think that wherever you are going, I think I like it a lot.

littlemanpoet · 04-18-2008, 07:41 AM

Should I post next for Tharonwe and/or Raefindan and/or Indil?

How do you see what's next?

mark12_30 · 04-21-2008, 06:18 PM

Yup.

I see Amroth and Erebemlin essentially coming up for air, recognising that they weren't getting very far, deciding to "go in after her" (I need an elvish way to say that) and follow Nimrodel into the grim darkness, like Aragorn did with Eowyn and Faramir. Only, with Nimrodel having been there a long time, it will be a long slow journey.

It can progress through all those dreams. I think that's the best roadmap for us to take. All the tentacles, drownings, ash, despair, accusations, railing against the Valar... etc. Amroth nowhere to be found in all of it. Avarien's departure; Gwyllion's gruesome departure. All of that should weave in.

littlemanpoet · 04-21-2008, 06:37 PM

I'm feeling at sea and rather intimidated. Maybe it's I'm tired and am not quite ready for such a load of research into past posts. Yike. I'm not even sure what Tharonwe would even want to try to do. See, he's disgusted by Nimrodel's agedness, for he himself has not aged, as such. So his love (greed/lust, whatever) has been swallowed up by disgust and hatred. So now he actually hates both Amroth and Nimrodel, and does not want her for himself after all, but just wants to defeat them both, precisely because all he has attempted in all of this has turned to ashes, though caused by his own deeds. That doesn't matter to him. But how on earth can he defeat them both? Not by killing them. The only way he can think of (I can think of) is to doom Amroth to a forever searching for Nimrodel in the depths of wherever she is - some kind of limbo. Tharonwe has developed his osanwe with the addition of hypnosis now, and that should be a powerful tool.... somehow. But that's the best I can do, for him. Raefindan is by contrast easy. He will simply attempt to defeat whatever Tharonwe tries to do.

Thoughts?

mark12_30 · 04-21-2008, 07:04 PM

Hey, I'm good at angst and the brink of despair. Bring it on.

Raefindan-- he will fight it, being a good sort, but surely-- if Amroth and Erebemlin are following her (porposefully) into the heart of all her darkness, Raefindan can't-- nor would he-- fend everything off that Tharonwe tries to throw at them.

There's couselling like that; bringing the victim into the heart of their darkness-- mentally returning to the crime scene at the time of the crime-- and THEN looking for Jesus in the midst of it, and sensing the freedom he brings. But the mental return to the crime scene is never easy. There's plenty of darkness there.

Tharonwe (here) can play thepart of the accuser very easily. If Amroth gets immersed in NImrodel's despair, and Nimrodel stays stuck in it, then they both lose. He doesn't have to kill them; their madness will be even better. And if even Erebemlin gets lost in the dark?

They will be walking back through all of Nimrodel's anguish. They will not find Amroth in any of it, not until they get back to the root of it (although echoes of the root's accusations will be howling all the time, she can't be free from it til she gets to the root itself.

Raefindan can't hope to solve any of it for Nimrodel; she has to hear the truth herself, back at the root of her lies. But he can provide some light-rays for Amroth and Erebemlin.

We can do this one dream at a time. THe first scene they recollect, and travel through, could be her travel into the vale they are in now, with its ghosts. There was also ice there, until recently. And it was full of Tharonwe's lies. We could start there.... ice. Hmm, which post was that...

mark12_30 · 04-21-2008, 07:32 PM

OK< I did some skimming. Mostly, lately, thedreams have been about Roy and indil. SO mightn't it be appropriate if the first working backward part --- or maybe even the intro to it-- was more about Mithrellas, Imrazor, INdil, Roy, Angela?

It would set the stage as to why Indil (Angela) was the answer to Avarien's searching. (Which I admit I'm currently a bit fuzzy on, but it's working/worked.) Amroth and Erebemlin can rest up, a little, & Ravion, Mellonin, and Nethwador too, while part of the indil story is told.

Maybe it begins with Tharonwe's resentment, and his need to remain important/ influential desite his sudden loss of interest in Nimrodel? Maybe it's time to flesh out the dark elf and explain his twistedness to the audience?

04-21-2008, 06:18 PM	#4
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Yup. I see Amroth and Erebemlin essentially coming up for air, recognising that they weren't getting very far, deciding to "go in after her" (I need an elvish way to say that) and follow Nimrodel into the grim darkness, like Aragorn did with Eowyn and Faramir. Only, with Nimrodel having been there a long time, it will be a long slow journey. It can progress through all those dreams. I think that's the best roadmap for us to take. All the tentacles, drownings, ash, despair, accusations, railing against the Valar... etc. Amroth nowhere to be found in all of it. Avarien's departure; Gwyllion's gruesome departure. All of that should weave in. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

04-21-2008, 07:04 PM	#6
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Hey, I'm good at angst and the brink of despair. Bring it on. Raefindan-- he will fight it, being a good sort, but surely-- if Amroth and Erebemlin are following her (porposefully) into the heart of all her darkness, Raefindan can't-- nor would he-- fend everything off that Tharonwe tries to throw at them. There's couselling like that; bringing the victim into the heart of their darkness-- mentally returning to the crime scene at the time of the crime-- and THEN looking for Jesus in the midst of it, and sensing the freedom he brings. But the mental return to the crime scene is never easy. There's plenty of darkness there. Tharonwe (here) can play thepart of the accuser very easily. If Amroth gets immersed in NImrodel's despair, and Nimrodel stays stuck in it, then they both lose. He doesn't have to kill them; their madness will be even better. And if even Erebemlin gets lost in the dark? They will be walking back through all of Nimrodel's anguish. They will not find Amroth in any of it, not until they get back to the root of it (although echoes of the root's accusations will be howling all the time, she can't be free from it til she gets to the root itself. Raefindan can't hope to solve any of it for Nimrodel; she has to hear the truth herself, back at the root of her lies. But he can provide some light-rays for Amroth and Erebemlin. We can do this one dream at a time. THe first scene they recollect, and travel through, could be her travel into the vale they are in now, with its ghosts. There was also ice there, until recently. And it was full of Tharonwe's lies. We could start there.... ice. Hmm, which post was that... __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

04-21-2008, 07:32 PM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	OK< I did some skimming. Mostly, lately, thedreams have been about Roy and indil. SO mightn't it be appropriate if the first working backward part --- or maybe even the intro to it-- was more about Mithrellas, Imrazor, INdil, Roy, Angela? It would set the stage as to why Indil (Angela) was the answer to Avarien's searching. (Which I admit I'm currently a bit fuzzy on, but it's working/worked.) Amroth and Erebemlin can rest up, a little, & Ravion, Mellonin, and Nethwador too, while part of the indil story is told. Maybe it begins with Tharonwe's resentment, and his need to remain important/ influential desite his sudden loss of interest in Nimrodel? Maybe it's time to flesh out the dark elf and explain his twistedness to the audience? __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

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04-12-2008, 12:57 PM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Our PM post never got started, so it's up to you and me. I'll write as the inspiration comes. You do the same. We'll see how it threads together. Since there's only two of us (for all practical purposes) we can edit in whatever we want wherever we want. As far as researching dreams, perhaps an advanced Search on dreams might be doable with a very tight "from-to" set. That way we may be able to access what we need without having to search the entire haystack. Regarding Mithrellas, I recently learned something important about the nature of self-sacrifice. It goes like this: Jesus was able to face his passion & crucifixion on 2 bases: (1) his love for us, and (2) they joy that awaited him. Remember, he gave up all the glory of his deity when he came, so he faced it as a human without sin. Similarly, Aragorn was able to live a long life of self-sacrifice for love of Gondor, Hobbits, Arwen, Gandalf, and many others; and for the joy that awaited him once all was achieved. So we have precedent from two good sources for Mithrellas. If she is nothing else, she is strong. She has been able to keep her hope alive throughout a millenium of her Lady's despair, and she has been able to keep her mind safe from the wiles of Tharonwe; not only the wiles, but he didn't even know she existed! That is strong! And noble! And pure. Holy, even. You do see where I'm going with this?

04-18-2008, 07:41 AM	#3
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Should I post next for Tharonwe and/or Raefindan and/or Indil? How do you see what's next?

04-21-2008, 06:37 PM	#5
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	I'm feeling at sea and rather intimidated. Maybe it's I'm tired and am not quite ready for such a load of research into past posts. Yike. I'm not even sure what Tharonwe would even want to try to do. See, he's disgusted by Nimrodel's agedness, for he himself has not aged, as such. So his love (greed/lust, whatever) has been swallowed up by disgust and hatred. So now he actually hates both Amroth and Nimrodel, and does not want her for himself after all, but just wants to defeat them both, precisely because all he has attempted in all of this has turned to ashes, though caused by his own deeds. That doesn't matter to him. But how on earth can he defeat them both? Not by killing them. The only way he can think of (I can think of) is to doom Amroth to a forever searching for Nimrodel in the depths of wherever she is - some kind of limbo. Tharonwe has developed his osanwe with the addition of hypnosis now, and that should be a powerful tool.... somehow. But that's the best I can do, for him. Raefindan is by contrast easy. He will simply attempt to defeat whatever Tharonwe tries to do. Thoughts?