Sir Ian as Gandalf

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

I do badly want to see someone else as Elrond. Weaving was by far the weakest of all the major roles in the films. His style of acting is seventy years out of date and is borrowed from silent Cecil B. Demille movies. He is stiff, wooden, pompous and delivers his lines as if some extra material had been inserted into his spinal area.
.

It was probably down to his inability to mask his contempt for the dialogue he'd been given - "Our list of allies grows thin"

Don't know if anyone can confirm the rumour that Philipa Boyens was taught by the late Professor Stanley Unwin? I found this pic http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/1759706.stm of him auditioning for Gandalf & here's a clip of him at a lecture on English Boyens is supposed to have attended in the early 90's http://www.stanleyunwin.com/audio/language%201.mp3

[Mithalwen]

Yes that was a terrible line, or perhaps he was suprised that the wise, noble, kind and self sacrificing book character had become a bitter, creepily jealous dad ... but the way he says Morrrrrrrrrrdorrrrrrrrrrrrr *thud*

Maybe he should have played it more like Mitzi...

http://www.daisycutter.nl/MAMBO/imag...the_Desert.jpg

[Sauron the White]

If Weavings problems with acting are the script, then he has trouble with every script he handles. He evidenced the same wooden acting style in the MATRIX films and again in VENDETTA although we were blessed with his mask to hide his expressionless face in that one.

Its the singer not the song.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

If Weavings problems with acting are the script, then he has trouble with every script he handles. He evidenced the same wooden acting style in the MATRIX films and again in VENDETTA although we were blessed with his mask to hide his expressionless face in that one.

Its the singer not the song.

So you are saying that Jackson made a mistake?!!!! That he is fallible?
That great success is not a sign of quality?
*faints with shock*

The Matrix isn't really my thing but I enjoyed the dry humour in Weaving's performance. I can't really see Agent Smith as a gurning Jim Carrey style loon.

Wooden in Priscilla? I think not..........

As for John R-D... I can't understand why it took so long to make him look like himself with more hair and a beard...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Its the singer not the song.

Or perhaps it is both the singer and the song...the greatest actor can't fix an abominable script.

I really enjoyed Weaving as Agent Smith and thought he was the consistent highlight of a trilogy that grew progressively worse the longer it got.

However, he just seemed perpetually grumpy as Elrond. I want more...subtlety and refinement and wisdom from the father of Arwen, the brother of Elros, the herald of Gil-galad, the greatest lore-master alive in Middle-earth. Regardless, I hope he comes back as Elrond in The Hobbit, for consistency's sake.

[Nogrod]

Consistency... yeah, that's the hard question...

I must say I enjoy the news of Sir Ian and Andy Serkis - not only for consistency but for pure performance. I loved the warmth & love in the eyes of Gandalf and the personality of Gollum in the LotR films and I know I would miss them in the Hobbit if they were not there.

With Hugo Weaving the question rekindles.

He was quite good as agent Smith I think but not as Elrond.

So is The Hobbit going to be a prequel to The Lord of the Rings-trilogy as a film? Or is it an independent film? Will it be just something to fill the visual & narrative ideas of PJ and Fran Walsh or is there room for el Toro to bring forwards his own vision?

We'll see... And darn I'm waiting to see it!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So is The Hobbit going to be a prequel to The Lord of the Rings-trilogy as a film? Or is it an independent film? Will it be just something to fill the visual & narrative ideas of PJ and Fran Walsh or is there room for el Toro to bring forwards his own vision?

We'll see... And darn I'm waiting to see it!

This is a very good point.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I hope he [Weaving] comes back as Elrond in The Hobbit, for consistency's sake.

I think this will provide us with a new question to discuss about elves, hobbits and maia: how much do they age and over what extent of time? Yes, yes, I know they are supposed to be ageless, but how to establish that with any degree of believability for the movie-going public who won't (one assumes) know all the Tolkien details.

How much younger should Bilbo appear?

Should Elrond and Galadriel (assuming she is in Part Deux) look even the tiniest bit younger? And Gandalf and Saruman--any fewer wrinkles? How will the makeup artists handle the natural aging of the actors who have played these characters?

For my part, I was always disappointed in the PJ trilogy that Galadriel, who is thousands of years older than Elrond, and is his mother in law to boot, looked so much younger than him. Didn't she get even one wrinkle, one grey hair worrying about her daughter?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I think this will provide us with a new question to discuss about elves, hobbits and maia: how much do they age and over what extent of time? Yes, yes, I know they are supposed to be ageless, but how to establish that with any degree of believability for the movie-going public who won't (one assumes) know all the Tolkien details.

How much younger should Bilbo appear?

If they get Ian Holm to the part of Bilbo I'm quite happy to see him at any age imaginable... To be more honest I think Bilbo should not lok too much younger than he was in the LotR as it is said the ring kept him young.

Thinking of the timeframe between the Hobbit and the LotR and scaling it with the lifespan of the elves or maia it looks simple that the time passed between the two works will be insignificant to the ageing of the main characters.

For my part, I was always disappointed in the PJ trilogy that Galadriel, who is thousands of years older than Elrond, and is his mother in law to boot, looked so much younger than him. Didn't she get even one wrinkle, one grey hair worrying about her daughter?

Good point! And how was it possible she was married to that young "dough-face" as her one love?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If they get Ian Holm to the part of Bilbo I'm quite happy to see him at any age imaginable... To be more honest I think Bilbo should not lok too much younger than he was in the LotR as it is said the ring kept him young.

ABSOLUTELY.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If they get Ian Holm to the part of Bilbo I'm quite happy to see him at any age imaginable... To be more honest I think Bilbo should not lok too much younger than he was in the LotR as it is said the ring kept him young.

Thinking of the timeframe between the Hobbit and the LotR and scaling it with the lifespan of the elves or maia it looks simple that the time passed between the two works will be insignificant to the ageing of the main characters.

Good point! And how was it possible she was married to that young "dough-face" as her one love?

It isn't the Hobit that is the problem though is it? Clearly you will need a younger Bilbo, Elrond is a cameo, and Gollum alas will be played by a computer. Where you have problems is with what ever they cobble together for this in between film. Surely Aragorn and Elrond will be a big part of that . Saruman and Galadriel for that matter...

... I am not sure that Viggo is the sort of actor who would want to go back. He has many other interests. And given the age he may have to be recast...

Weaving might not want to for a long haul either - or Cate Blanchett. The wonderful Christopher Lee is very hale for an octogenarian but ..... You may well need a younger Theoden and Denethor.... I can't help thinking of the Irishism "if I was going there I wouldn't start from here".

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

For my part, I was always disappointed in the PJ trilogy that Galadriel, who is thousands of years older than Elrond, and is his mother in law to boot, looked so much younger than him. Didn't she get even one wrinkle, one grey hair worrying about her daughter?

Sorry, but G. was ever a bit of a babe..

The chamber was filled with a soft light; its walls were green and silver and its roof of gold. Many Elves were seated there. On two chairs beneath the bole of the tree and canopied by a living bough there sat, side by side, Celeborn and Galadriel. They stood up to greet their guests, after the manner of Elves, even those who were accounted mighty kings. Very tall they were, and the Lady no less tall than the Lord; and they were grave and beautiful. They were clad wholly in white; and the hair of the Lady was of deep gold, and the hair of the Lord Celeborn was of silver long and bright; but no sign of age was upon them, unless it were in the depths of their eyes; for these were keen as lances in the starlight, and yet profound, the wells of deep memory.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by davem

Sorry, but G. was ever a bit of a babe..

So the discrepancy lies with Tolkien who wanted a Brangelina for Lothlorien. (tsk. I shall be flailed for that. Legions of estimable Downers past shall suddenly appear and attack my audacity for criticising The Professor.)

Originally Posted by Many Meetings

The face of Elrond was ageless, neither old nor young, though in it was written the memory of many things both glad and sorrowful. His hair was dark as the shadows of twilight, and upon it was set a circlet of silver; his eyes were grey as a clear evening, and in them was a light like the light of stars. Venerable he seemed as a king crowned with many winters, and yet hale as a tried warrior in the fulness of his strength. He was the Lord of Rivendell and mighty among both Elves and Men.

Now this description captures the essential nature of the long lived elves so well, it seems to me. Tolkien is able to hint at Elrond's ages of experience while still presenting a character in full and hearty physical prowess. Not so with the Lothlorien Royal Couple. Does the difference hint at some defining distinction between Rivendell and Lothlorien, that one maintained links and associations outside its dwelling while the other cut itself off from outside communication? Galadriel tried the old Girdle trick.

Frankly, I find the description of Galadriel and Celeborn (poor consort, no wonder he is ridiculed if he is denied a manly expression of experience) really weird. Possibly Tolkien wanted something to appear off kilter for his perilous realm, but the state of Galadriel and Celeborn reminds me more of the effect of the Ring, something altogether unnatural. If you've read Wilde's The Picture of Dorien Grey, the Lord and Lady of Lothlorien are even ickier.

Maybe Tolkien just had trouble coming up with a second major description of elven immortality? 'cause elves start out as babies/kids and so they must show some kind of change over time.

So, to keep this on topic, I suppose CGI techniques can be used where 10 years of actors' aging must hidden.