How many in Battle of 5 Armies?

[Groin Redbeard]

These arguments are beginning to make no sense. First we say that the elf strength is around 2500 men with the majority being archers, but Morthoron says that there was more than 1000 spearmen plus a large number of swordsmen, both elf and man. It seems that the number of elves grow every few posts.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

And where anywhere do you find the Elves were backed into a corner? Where does it say they were underarmed?

Where does it say that the elves outnumbered the dwarves by such a large force? Where does it say that the majority of their army were archers? Where does it say that there were more than a thousand spearmen in the elven ranks?

A lot of our arguments, including yours, Morthoron, are just speculations and educated guesses. How much supplies do you think that the men of Laketown could gather from their burnt and runed city, probably not much more than what they were wearing. The elves had to move fast in order to get to Erebor quickly, so they probably didn't take much supplies prefering to travel light and fast.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

It is debatable whether the dwarves would have been better warriors than the elves on a man-for-man basis (I find it unlikely), but give the enormous difference in size between the armies, I don't think it matters.

Not long ago, almost all of us agreed that the dwarves would whoop the elves and men in a hand to hand contest, but the problem was getting close enought; that led into the armor debate. Why the change of thought?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

These arguments are beginning to make no sense. First we say that the elf strength is around 2500 men with the majority being archers, but Morthoron says that there was more than 1000 spearmen plus a large number of swordsmen, both elf and man. It seems that the number of elves grow every few posts.

Read the book. They had at least 1000 spearmen (and enough reserves for a second full charge against the orcs), swordsmen and a large contingent of archers. This does not even account for the men under Bard.

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Where does it say that the elves outnumbered the dwarves by such a large force? Where does it say that the majority of their army were archers? Where does it say that there were more than a thousand spearmen in the elven ranks?

Again, read the book. That would be a start.

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

A lot of our arguments, including yours, Morthoron, are just speculations and educated guesses. How much supplies do you think that the men of Laketown could gather from their burnt and runed city, probably not much more than what they were wearing. The elves had to move fast in order to get to Erebor quickly, so they probably didn't take much supplies prefering to travel light and fast.

Conjecture on your part. They were fully armed with spear, sword and bows. What makes you think the Dwarves spent much time supplying themselves?

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Not long ago, almost all of us agreed that the dwarves would whoop the elves and men in a hand to hand contest, but the problem was getting close enought; that led into the armor debate. Why the change of thought?

I never agreed to anything. That is a figment of your imagination.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Where does it say that the elves outnumbered the dwarves by such a large force? Where does it say that the majority of their army were archers? Where does it say that there were more than a thousand spearmen in the elven ranks?

Not long ago, almost all of us agreed that the dwarves would whoop the elves and men in a hand to hand contest, but the problem was getting close enought; that led into the armor debate. Why the change of thought?

I don't know about the elves having more archers than they did spearmen, as the distinguishing characteristic of this particular army seems to be the spearmen, but they certainly had a substantial number of archers.

I had thought that we decided that Dain brought less than 500 with him...I may have made that up?

Why the change of thought? Ohhh...willingness to change my mind when presented with a persuasive argument, I suppose.

I have to agree, Groin, that most of your arguments do seem to be driven by an intense anti-elf bias, rather than careful reason. That's ok, though, we all have our biases, admitted or not.

[Gwathagor]

Hey, hope you enjoy that vacation, Groin. Tell us about it when you get back.