Dueling Wizards Werewolf II discussion thread

[Nogrod]

Should we open a hard-core rule-thread so that no one gets frustrated with the need of ironing out the rules?

Celuien sent me a PM saying she will be playing. So that's true and confirmed. Great to see her for a long time!

Bad news is that Boro will only have one day/week time to play in the coming weeks and is forced to stay away from the game.

I'd say in this kind of game the hunter should be of the classical variety eg. posting a name of one person s/he is hunting and that one will die whether innocent or wolf. As the good team has the advance of sharing GW's and seer's pssible knowledge there must be this risk-factor included.

Have we yet decided on communication (sorry, it was a lot to read)? I remember from last time that the GW had difficulties because there was not enough time to discuss crucial choices with his team members.

I stil think 24hour cycle should be enough. If the deadline is 11PM GMT it will be pretty good for all the Europeans and Americans enabling them to check the PM's at various points during the Night - including just before and just after the deadline.

The late deadline might be a bit inconvenient for some Europeans (us Finns and possibly Legate) but that makes it possible for Lhuna and Nilp to be there at the deadline - and eases the situation of the Americans who have day-time occupations. So I think it's a good compromise.

I wouldn't set any internal deadlines to the communication during the Night from outside as they just tend to complicate matters and are hard to define as so much would depend on who the people involved are. The wizards themselves surely are free to impose deadlines to their minions if they see it fit. If the EW calls her wolves and says fex. "if you wish to make points on who to kill, please do it before 6PM GMT as I will not take later contributions into consideration"; or if the GW tells her gifteds that "all the suggestions as to your targets toNight should be with me at 8PM GMT the latest or I will decide it for you" then it's fine for me.

So it's also a question of the wizards telling their minions when they are able to receive information the last time before they send their decisions to me/submod. And in the end active minions can approach their master enough-many times a Night - and an active wizard may give the feedback as well many times a Night. So I wouldn't be too concerned about this question.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

There is. As you can see from the family tree, Greenie's family is all green

Haha! Pity I can't rep you at the moment! This made my otherwise boring evening somewhat merrier, for a reason I can't explain.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Should we open a hard-core rule-thread so that no one gets frustrated with the need of ironing out the rules?

Actually. Now a bad idea. I feel like playing WW already and it's only the discussion thread. It would make things easier. (and we'd break the limit for WW threads for one game )

I think 4-> Wolves=2 kills.

How about the beginning? A situation like Loki's, both Wizards choose the same player before the game even starts. Wouldn't it be unfair if the player died?

Noggie, could I be your father?

edit: and when I was younger my profession was being the guy who knows everything about staying alive.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I would suggest that you would consider being the mother of Legate / Brinn / Kitanna -trio of 20+ children.

But Noggie, isn't Roa our mommy? But I do agree Celuien should be the mother of Gwathy and McCaber. Somebody has to put those two in their place.

[the phantom]

Okay, so I've got parents, a sister, a fiance, a grandmother, an aunt, an uncle, and cousins. Now I need a job.

Legate- that's a big herd you have for just one person to take care of. Perhaps we are best buddies and are in the sheep business together. We've been raking in a good little bit the last few years, but these Werewolves are threatening our business.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Legate- that's a big herd you have for just one person to take care of. Perhaps we are best buddies and are in the sheep business together. We've been raking in a good little bit the last few years, but these Werewolves are threatening our business.

Good idea. I think two could take care of the job a lot better than just one. Let's join forces and make business...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

But Noggie, isn't Roa our mommy? But I do agree Celuien should be the mother of Gwathy and McCaber. Somebody has to put those two in their place.

That was just a suggestion as well... Maybe Roa could be the mother of you three and Celuien could be the mother of the two guys? And they could be sisters together?

And if Volo would like to be my father (as he says) then I could sit in my right place as the big-brother of Lalaith and possibly the husband of Roa or Celuien? (don't worry my friends, I will be dead after Night1 ).

That would still leave open the possibility of morm being the actual patriarch if Volo is a weak gamling and morm is my brother (and the other child of Volo's and husband of either Roa or Celuien - with this scenario I'd say I would have to be tha husband of Roa... just thinking of our shared history in WW... ).

I'm going to see how it would work - tomorrow. And if you people have any preferences let me know about them.

Feel free to disagree or to suggest better options!

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

That would still leave open the possibility of morm being the actual patriarch if Volo is a weak gamling and morm is my brother (and the other child of Volo's and husband of either Roa or Celuien - with this scenario I'd say I would have to be tha husband of Roa... just thinking of our shared history in WW... ).

Is that a proposal, Nogrod?

I accept! And I promise to make a suitable ruckus over your death.

Retractable votes in a village of 25 or more will make for a big confusing mess. Best avoid that.

Double lynches are also probably a bad idea, considering how fast the numbers would drop.

The last game, the wolves had two kills for being four or more, (something that took me a few Days to achieve, so fewer people were cut out of the game early.)

The GW never actually reached a situation where he had all three gifted last game. *looks very pleased with herself* Of course, different Wizards could turn out very differently this game. I don't know about being an extra Ranger with scrying, though. After all, he's already an extra Seer, which is an advantage as it is, even with out the ability to turn wolves into ordos, which is a BIG advantage for the good side. As the EW, losing my wolves to scrying was my biggest fear, especially Morm, who knew my identity (by accident). Having all three to start with is a big balancer from the last game, and he should definitely be allowed to re-gift as many times as he needs to replace lost gifted.

I never had a limit on the number of wolves I could have, but with the way I burned through them, the most I ever managed was six. I'm not sure about limiting the number, because on the one hand, if the EW and the wolves are crafty enough to get high numbers and keep them (not as easy as it sounds), then Kudos to them. Besides, if the EW managed to reach the limit, what would she do for scrying? I can see how the GW could be ranger-esque (even if I don't really agree with it), but honestly, what would the EW get to do?

That's just the perspective of the former EW, though. Where's Gurthang? I remember his biggest complaint was having to communicate during the Day instead of the Night.

EDIT: Also, I vote that the first to reach the highest number of votes gets lynched. Random just makes it harder on both teams.

[Lhunardawen]

I vote for the first to get the highest number of votes to be lynched. *grumbles about coin-flipping*

Roa makes a good point about the GW being an extra Seer, and I agree that turning the extra scries into Ranger protections will be a bit too advantageous for the Good Team. It's enough that the GW finds out that the villager is not a wolf or the EW.

[the phantom]

Personally, I'd like the last person to reach the vote total to be lynched. That leaves open more voting possibilities in my mind. If you need to surpass the vote leader rather than simply tie them in order to get your candidate lynched you are obviously less likely to be successful, and therefore less likely to try it.

I've always thought one of the most telling things about voting behavior is when people swoop in to "save" someone from the chopping block. And making the last person to reach the count be the one who gets the axe would encourage that sort of saving behavior.

Or you could also have a situation like this-
Person 1- 5 votes
Person 2- 4 votes
Person 3- 4 votes

There are still a couple people left to vote who would like to see Person 2 or 3 lynched, but if the rules say the first person gets lynched then their votes are essentially worthless. But if the last person gets lynched their votes are still very powerful and then they will have to compete with each other to be the last to cast their vote, and how hard they try at it might be an indicator of how badly they want to lynch their candidate (or save the other candidate).

In my opinion the longer you can keep the decision up in the air and the more room you leave for multiple candidates to be under the gun, the better.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Roa makes a good point about the GW being an extra Seer, and I agree that turning the extra scries into Ranger protections will be a bit too advantageous for the Good Team. It's enough that the GW finds out that the villager is not a wolf or the EW.

Seconded.

And hey, a proper occupation just occurred to me. I want to be the little match girl!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Volo

How about the beginning? A situation like Loki's, both Wizards choose the same player before the game even starts. Wouldn't it be unfair if the player died?

Read the thread...

I think there is a consensus now that both wizards will scry at least five people and then the mod is going to partly sort them out (so that those called for by both of the wizards will be let alone and a wizard can't scry another wizard ) and in the end the mod will randomize the eligible ones to both wizards from those left. So they will never know why they were assigned just those people in the beginning: was it because the other wizard had gone for them as well or was it just pure luck. They can sure make their own inferences from that "lottery" but that's already playing the game!

On other Nights than Night1 the one scried by both wizards will die for it. But not on the first one before the game actually starts.

[Celuien]

I like all of the options... particularly the one involving morm, given our old werewolf history.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Celuien

I like all of the options... particularly the one involving morm, given our old werewolf history.

The marriage between myself and Roa would honour a long tradition as well. So unless morm (or Roa) protests I'll be making it thus.

So Myself and Roa will be the parents of Legate, Kitanna and Brinn. Morm is my brother, married to Celuien. Together they are the parents of McCaber and Gwath. I try to find time to update the family-map later today.

So now we have another big family and everyone in the game this far is integrated to a family. Narration / playingwise it's also good that as Eomer will be killed with me on Night1 then both families suffer a loss.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Read the thread...

Sorry... I agree with the idea.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Volo

Sorry... I agree with the idea.

Don't be sorry... I just realised I had forgotten the smiley from there - it would belong there... I think I will add it.


Important notice:

I've made the first version of the "basic rules" ie. what a normal villager should know about the game and the rules. It can be found from the game thread. There will be a few things we should reach agreement on before the game starts so let me know what you think about them (those things are italicized there).

I'll try to come up with the "advanced rules" ie. what the minions and the wizards should know later...

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, here's my situation. I work until the deadline, with no internet at work. I can post during lunches and during nights (Day starts) and probably before I head to work. This means that any and all of my votes will be cast at LEAST six hours prior to deadline. Alternatively, I can text at work, and if my duckling has internet access, she may be able to proxy vote for me (only vote, no arguments, no other posting, just post my final decision) if she agrees to do so (and I'll only do that if it's absolutely necessary, e.g. my internet access is cut off for a day or two, I'm in danger of modfire to due aforementioned reason, my fingers have been cut off, etc., so for the most part all votes will come from me and any post made FOR me and not BY me will be marked as such for clarity and fairness.)



If everyone else is okay with that, you can take the question marks off my name, and let's get to werewolfing!

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Oooh. Hamlet, anybody?

I prefer the Disney version.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So Myself and Roa will be the parents of Legate, Kitanna and Brinn. Morm is my brother, married to Celuien. Together they are the parents of McCaber and Gwath. I try to find time to update the family-map later today.

So I've been dating two of my cousins? Great.
(Really, I don't mind. It's just funnier that way.)

**

In case of a tie the one gaining the highest vote first will die (this might be subject to change as I kind of liked the test in a game sometime ago where the last one gaining the highest vote was killed).

I think it might be interesting to try the version with the last gaining the highest vote count being lynched. In the game(s?) it was used earlier there were retractable votes, which made it a bit different.

There will be no modfire so the villagers need to get rid of people they don’t trust themselves. (This is also subject to change if a majority has a strong view on this the other way. Then the ruling would be that two Days in a row with no votes would bring on the modfire).

I would say no to modfire. There will be many enough deaths anyway.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think it might be interesting to try the version with the last gaining the highest vote count being lynched. In the game(s?) it was used earlier there were retractable votes, which made it a bit different.

I think we should go for the usual "mod flips a coin" method, this game is complicated enough anyway...