Do Elves BURY their dead?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I belive that they must have burried their dead or at least have had some form of tradition for what to do with the dead, since the elves somewhat resembles men.

One of the first signs of human activity other than what remains from hunting and so forth is human burrials, we don't know why our ancestors burried their dead but they did.

It could be that it was because they did not like leaving their kin to be eaten by animals, I am quite sure that elves would feel the same way.

Since the elves could be seen at the deadmarshes I take that they did not turn to dust when dead. . .if they did it would have meant that the Nirnaeth Arnoediad would have been a living hell for people with dust allergies and a sourse to extreme coughing for the rest of the participants.

Anyways, I don't seem to remember any massive graveyards of men ever being mentioned. . .if they are then please correct me. Surely men was burried even though the sites is not pointed out to us,

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Anyways, I don't seem to remember any massive graveyards of men ever being mentioned. . .if they are then please correct me. Surely men was burried even though the sites is not pointed out to us,

Rath Dinen, the Silent Street in Minas Tirith, was probably the most famous place of internment for the race of Men (next to the Barrow Downs, of course). It would seem those of Numenorean descent were drawn to ornate entombment, most likely in envy of elvish immortality. Then, of course, there are the burial mounds of the Rohirrim, a direct link to Sutton Hoo and other such mounds that mark early Anglo-Saxon (and directly, their Norse/Germanic heritage) burial rites.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Of course it could be argued that the whole Rath Dinene/Silent street area is a massive complex, but it is still a relatively small portion of the dead who dwells here and only from the ruling class.

The same goes for the Rohiric mounds and even the Barrow-Downs. . .

I am quite sure that men just not turn into dust or fade away very quickly, so how do we explain this lack of graveyards?

I think it was just not important enough to make the books, if Tolkien was to describe every single aspect of every culture in Middle-Earth it would be too great a project. (and if then end result would probably not be the best read ever)

[Alfirin]

The answer to why there are so few graves in ME and they all seem to belong to the noble and important is very, very simple, they were the only ones ALLOWED such a privalege. The Concept of a grave as we now now it, that of a spot that a person is interred FOREVER, is a very, very new concept, even in the western world (started around the 18th-19th century, I belive). Prior to that waht happened to most people was a more temporary affair. the Body was buried with a marker of usuallly wood (NOT stone). after a period of time (3-5 years in some areas up to 20 in others) the grave was dug up, and any bones remaining were deposited in mass ossuary (sometimes) or discarded (more often) along with the marker (assuming it had not already rotted away) and the space was re-used for another burial (remember the gravedigger's scene in Hamlet. The ronly people who were allowed such luxuries as a permanent resting place tened to be the upper classes most of whom interred thier dead in family crypts or catacombs which were sometimes but not alaways located under the actual houses the familes lived in. Under the floors of churches was another popular place for the rich to be buried (Westminster Abbey is a good example of this) There are even some very famous chuches which decorated thier interiors with mosaics made from the bones of those buried within thier walls.) In having so few permanet graves Tolkein is just adhering to the historical record.

[Mithalwen]

I think allergies would be the last of anyone's worries at the Nirnaieth Rune

[alatar]

Would the elves, who did not die except in exceptional cases (battle, grief, bad hair day) even bother with developing extensive burial procedures?

And surely a rotting elven corpse would smell just as sweet.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

The answer to why there are so few graves in ME and they all seem to belong to the noble and important is very, very simple, they were the only ones ALLOWED such a privalege. The Concept of a grave as we now now it, that of a spot that a person is interred FOREVER, is a very, very new concept, even in the western world (started around the 18th-19th century, I belive).

In view of Tolkien's background in Anglo-Saxon studies, I believe he adhered to the fundamental practices of that society, and of other Norse and Germanic folk, which would not include disinternment and placing of bones in an Ossuary. Looking at common Viking practices, for instance, there are many cemeteries scattered across Sweden, Norway and Denmark where non-upper class folk were permanently buried. This goes for Viking settlements in Greenland and the New World as well.

The reason Tolkien only mentions Rath Dinen, the Rohirrim's mounds and the Barrow Downs (site of Dunedain burials), all of which hold lordly tombs, is that they are germane to the story. Tolkien does not dwell much on commonality in any race, save perhaps the Hobbits. There is sparse information regarding anything outside of what happened with the ruling caste of any race; however, it is reasonable to assume that, as with most societies, the peasantry and bourgeois followed the norms of their lords.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

The reason Tolkien only mentions Rath Dinen, the Rohirrim's mounds and the Barrow Downs (site of Dunedain burials), all of which hold lordly tombs, is that they are germane to the story. Tolkien does not dwell much on commonality in any race, save perhaps the Hobbits.

I've thought a bit about this concept before, but I believe Morth and Rune sum it up rather well. For the sake of the story's development and to express the range of experiences of the fellowship and others I doubt Tolkien would have say, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas stop after finding the Uruk-hai pire and exclaim, "Ah ha! You see now dear reader, a prime example of Rohirrim funerary customs with the fallen and their enemies- "

Though, I can't doubt that Tolkien did take some measures to show his readers some of the customs of the different peoples that the fellowship was made up of, and met with to distinguish differences from elves, hobbits, etc. Just that the story wouldn't be what it is if he set it up as a sociological safari, having characters explain their culture in the short time and immediate threat they had dealing with Sauron and others. Instead, we have the opportunity to read from an observational perspective and experience what the characters do, etc. Plus, as Rune has already said, it wouldn't be the same read if Tolkien tried to make a cultural encyclopedia within the story (and we wouldn't have much to talk about here as well...).

It's interesting though how much everday customs we know about Hobbits in and out of the Shire, but I can't remember whether Tolkien wrote about any of their funerary customs either... (!). Though, I think the wealth of information about them is relative to the spotlight in the story Frodo and his fellow kif and kin hold in the story.

~ Ka

[Gwathagor]

Maybe the elves stick their dead in trees like some of the Native Americans...that would be funny. And fairly appropriate, too.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

The answer to why there are so few graves in ME and they all seem to belong to the noble and important is very, very simple, they were the only ones ALLOWED such a privalege. The Concept of a grave as we now now it, that of a spot that a person is interred FOREVER, is a very, very new concept, even in the western world (started around the 18th-19th century, I belive). Prior to that waht happened to most people was a more temporary affair. the Body was buried with a marker of usuallly wood (NOT stone). after a period of time (3-5 years in some areas up to 20 in others) the grave was dug up, and any bones remaining were deposited in mass ossuary (sometimes) or discarded (more often) along with the marker (assuming it had not already rotted away) and the space was re-used for another burial (remember the gravedigger's scene in Hamlet. The ronly people who were allowed such luxuries as a permanent resting place tened to be the upper classes most of whom interred thier dead in family crypts or catacombs which were sometimes but not alaways located under the actual houses the familes lived in. Under the floors of churches was another popular place for the rich to be buried (Westminster Abbey is a good example of this) There are even some very famous chuches which decorated thier interiors with mosaics made from the bones of those buried within thier walls.) In having so few permanet graves Tolkein is just adhering to the historical record.

I don't know where you are from in the western world, but around here we do not keep our graves forever. . .not unless we have relatives willing to pay for it or we are of the royal family. I think the general rule is that you keep you grave site for 25 years after your death, then it is up to relatives to decide if they want to keep it.

Anyways whether the graves only stood for a few years or permanently, it does not change the problem: Why don't we here about them?