Dueling Wizards Werewolf II discussion thread

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There will be no immediate "replacements". If a gifted dies during the Night the GW can scry her roster full the next Night the earliest.

But if a gifted is turned into an ordo by the EW, then that gifted did not actually die.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

First of all there is no basic difference between the two options as the gifteds only work at Nights with special powers (and if the gift can be reassigned in the beginning of the next Night then there is no loss from the GW's viewpoint as the new gifted is fully operational that Night).

You lost me. Sure, if a gifted is killed, then by the nightly order, the gift of that individual already took effect, so there's no issue there. But if a gifted is "ordo-ed" by the EW, that gift is lost to the good team for this particular night (because the scry takes place before the abilities of the gifted). It is only reassigned and fully operational the next night.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Secondly when scrying her roster full the GW is after the EW eg. trying to find out who she is. That is not automatically the same person she would like to have as her gifted so we should leave the choices to the GW and not force them upon her.

That's true. The question is what is worse to the GW and whether we want him to have this disadvantage to the EW (whose minions are immediately replaced). There would, of course, also be the possibility to ask the GW what he wants, or to let him give his decision on this matter beforehand each time.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think the arguments behind that conclusion were never made this open though, so it was good the issue arised anyway.

At your service.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The question is what is worse to the GW and whether we want him to have this disadvantage to the EW (whose minions are immediately replaced).

I just want to remind you that there is a greater risk to the EW than simply being down a wolf if the GW scries one. The scried wolf immediately changes teams, and all the info that they have goes with them. The absolute worst risk that the GW faces is a lost dream if the seer is turned, a role which the GW is already filling at that point. When the gifted roster is full, the good team has two seers. They don't need automatic respawns to balance the game.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I just want to remind you that there is a greater risk to the EW than simply being down a wolf if the GW scries one. The scried wolf immediately changes teams, and all the info that they have goes with them. The absolute worst risk that the GW faces is a lost dream if the seer is turned, a role which the GW is already filling at that point. When the gifted roster is full, the good team has two seers. They don't need automatic respawns to balance the game.

That's a fair point, though of course the knowledge of each individual wolf will probably be kept very limited by the EW.

I'm just concerned about the unbalance that seemed to exist in the previous DW, so I was looking for possible disadvantages for the good team. They lose a gift, while the "gifts" of the evil team (# of kills) is not impaired in the equivalent situation. Sure, the evil team loses a member immediately when he's scried, but in turn the size of the team is not limited.

I'm sorry if I appear picky about this point.

[Thinlómien]

Hmmm... I tried to lure Jenny to talk with me on Facebook so that I could invite her later, but she never replied... I think I'll go to spam TORE and the previous GW Gurth. Wish me good luck.

[Durelin]

I pestered Kuru, but he's in the midst of moving.

Yeah, I miss TORE and Gurthang!

And what happened to Gil-galad?

I imagine Boro has been pestered?

[Eönwë]

Rikae, can I be your apprentice? (or whatever you call the equivalent thing for a lumberjack).

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Though, I'm a bit afraid what you'd do to my sim after the last WW...

Thanks for reminding, now I just must find the time.

Has anyone asked Fea?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I'm just concerned about the unbalance that seemed to exist in the previous DW, so I was looking for possible disadvantages for the good team. They lose a gift, while the "gifts" of the evil team (# of kills) is not impaired in the equivalent situation. Sure, the evil team loses a member immediately when he's scried, but in turn the size of the team is not limited.

The last game wasn't really unbalanced. The only disadvantage that Gurthang, the previous GW, complained about was the difficulty of communication, which has already been solved. My only complaint was what happened with the hunter, which has again been solved. LMP put a lot of work into balancing the last game, and he did a pretty good job. Everyone seems so concerned about balancing the game, but we all seem to have forgotten LMP's work. We are getting dangerously close to Unbalancing the game in favor of the good side.

Look, if the GW can just instantly replace his gifted, then what would be the point of the wolves trying to kill them? The goal of each Wizard is to bolster their own team while limiting the other. Wolves are not aiming for innocents, they're aiming for gifted. You can't take that away from them, or you heavily unbalance the game in favor of the Good Team. If a seer dream happens EVEN THOUGH the wolves manage to kill the seer, can you really call that fair?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa

If a seer dream happens EVEN THOUGH the wolves manage to kill the seer, can you really call that fair?

This discussion is not a new one. There was a lot of talk whether the first DW was balanced or not. But I do think we have corrected the few main issues (the GW will get all three gifteds from the start + both teams can communicate only during the Nights) and I do share Roa's fear of "balancing" it too much.

But that exact ruling I would like to keep. There is a clear and certain order how things happen during the Night and thence as the seer's dream is before the wolves will kill anyone the dream will be revealed to the GW even if the seer dies that Night.

About questions concerning invitations:

Fea has been sent an invitation - a long ago it was but still. There has been no answer - which holds true for Holby, Naria and Anguirel as well.

Boro had to decline because of RL busyness.

Spm and tgwbs have not visited the 'Downs since I've sent them an invitation so I wouldn't count on them either.

I have just sent a PM to both Zali and Holby who both have declared their interest in playing this game earlier.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Roa

Look, if the GW can just instantly replace his gifted, then what would be the point of the wolves trying to kill them? The goal of each Wizard is to bolster their own team while limiting the other. Wolves are not aiming for innocents, they're aiming for gifted. You can't take that away from them, or you heavily unbalance the game in favor of the Good Team. If a seer dream happens EVEN THOUGH the wolves manage to kill the seer, can you really call that fair?

I'm not talking about the wolf-kills at all. As Nogrod said, the rules are clear on that, whether they're fair or not is another thing. My original question was what happens if a gifted is taken away from the good team by the scry of the EW (i.e. doesn't die). I guess "no immediate" regifting counts in both cases, dying and not dying. I didn't mean to overbalance things either.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There has been no answer - which holds true for Holby, Naria and Anguirel as well.

Spm and tgwbs have not visited the 'Downs since I've sent them an invitation so I wouldn't count on them either.

I mentioned the game to tgwbs awhile ago, but he replied he's still in school and will remain fairly busy throughout the summer. As for Anguirel, since he's also at Oxford I can only assume he's still in school as well...and getting a glimpse at his crazy schedule, I can only guess he won't be available.

I mentioned DW in a message to Formy, but he hasn't replied yet. Hmm...has anyone tried Sleepy Ranger and Farael? Or how about Elf-Warrior and Menel? Well, I know I can pester at least half of these guys via Facebook...