Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

mark12_30 · 05-30-2008, 05:12 PM

Top of the first book:
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10385
Top of the first discussion thread:
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10334

What happens next as Nimrodel relives the past:

Mithrellas, stung by Nimrodel's fury, will linger near her, til Imrazor finds her, courts her, and marries her. She leaves Nimrodel long enough to raise a family. ...
From the first discussion thread, towards the bottom of post # 9:
After Mithrellas leaves Imrazor she returns to the mountains to look for Nimrodel. She travels far west (towards Lefnui?) and finds the wandering Nimrodel, and persuades her to return to Edhellond and look for Amroth.

(While Mithrellas was married to Imrazor and raising a family: )
Nimrodel has found Amroth's corpse (uncorrupt) washed up on shore, somewhere on the Belfalas. Since he is uncorrupt, she hopes in the possibility he might return to that body instead of being reborn as an infant, so she lays him in a few feet of clear water (a la dead marshes, only he doesn't rot) and waits (for a couple of decades) over his body for him to return.

But the Valar don't want to send Amroth back; They want her to come west; so they wait, hoping that she'll catch the next ship. Amroth is stuck in Mandos, waiting and hoping.

Nimrodel waits beside Amroth's body for a long time; however, Nothing Happens, (while Mithrellas and Imrazor are happily building a family, and Amroth is waiting in the Halls of Mandos for her to sail west.) and eventually Nimrodel despairs and loses her reason.

She returns alone to the mountains, where she finds the Stone of Erech. She waits there, drawn to it in her madness and despair, and the dead come. She recognizes their despair in hers, and chooses to stay with them, dwelling in her memories of Amroth while she is awake, and dreaming of him while she sleeps. In her madness she willingly participates in their curse. The Valar realize this and further refuse to send Amroth back to her while she is under the curse.

Mithrellas finds her, after a long hard search. She waits on her, and takes care of her. For long years they dwell there, til Nimrodel forgets her name and takes the names given her by the dead. but Although the curse burdens, opresses and wearies her, Mithrellas brings food to Nimrodel and never abandons her. When Elessar breaks the curse and frees the Dead during the War of the Ring, Nimrodel and Mithrellas are freed as well. (Nimrodel is, however, still mad, completely living in memories of Amroth.) They wander west from Erech, through the cleft above the penninsula that juts into the bay of Belfalas, straight to the coast. They follow the coast up through Enedwaith over the mouth of the Isen, up into Miniriath, to the mouth of the Baranduin. There they halt; short of the havens, they turn south and return to Belfalas.

EDIT: or to the vale where they are now.

This progression, with the dreams and songs, should wrap up the tale. Hopefully we can use this as a framework, or as a warp, weaving in the woof of the dreams & songs as we go.

littlemanpoet · 05-31-2008, 07:45 AM

Yike! Have I misinterpreted Mithrellas as too strong of spirit?

More dreams:

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=391
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=378
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=373

I'm out of time for now. More later.

mark12_30 · 05-31-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Yike! Have I misinterpreted Mithrellas as too strong of spirit?

NO NO NO, she is more yours than mine!! THat's from an old outline written in the beginning of things (LIKE FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO???) so of course it needs adjustment. I put it up more for the map value than the character stuff. THey are who they are, at this point.

In fact let me know where my outline needs Mithrellas-adjustment and I will edit accordingly so that we are all on the same (pro-Mithrellas) page. Nimrodel NEEDS a strong friend, don't weaken her now!

littlemanpoet · 06-01-2008, 06:43 AM

Whew!

Don't worry about the outline. The story that is being finished up is what counts, not the old outline. Thanks for the reassurance.

By the way, I have not forgotten about Jorje. His role will yet be critical. You will see.

littlemanpoet · 06-01-2008, 07:47 AM

More dreams:

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=329
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=299
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=297
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=285
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=282
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=270
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=252

Pages 1 - 6 yet to go, and then I can start on the songs.

I have a plot contradiction to deal with. In posts 290ff, Tharonwe forces Raefindan to dream of himself as Imrazor and of Imrazor killing Mithrellas. Then in recent posts I have had Tharonwe not having realized Mithrellas was even there, caring for Nimrodel. How on earth do I resolve this? What was Tharonwe's reason for trying to confuse Raefindan regarding Mithrellas in the first place? Ack!

mark12_30 · 06-01-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I have a plot contradiction to deal with. In posts 290ff, Tharonwe forces Raefindan to dream of himself as Imrazor and of Imrazor killing Mithrellas. Then in recent posts I have had Tharonwe not having realized Mithrellas was even there, caring for Nimrodel. How on earth do I resolve this? What was Tharonwe's reason for trying to confuse Raefindan regarding Mithrellas in the first place? Ack!

Maybe it is the strength of Mithrellas herself, who caused Tharonwe to, ahem, forget.

The Valar caused Amroth to "forget" 1000 years of history, and waiting, a couple of times.

Tharonwe's been so busy torturing the important folks he forgot, or perhaps discounted, the quiet unassuming servants. If they're quiet and unassuming, they must be insignificant anyway. ...Just a thought or so. But I like the idea of Mithrellas hiding herself from Tharonwe, and "letting " him conveniently forget her.

littlemanpoet · 06-01-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Maybe it is the strength of Mithrellas herself, who caused Tharonwe to, ahem, forget.

The Valar caused Amroth to "forget" 1000 years of history, and waiting, a couple of times.

Tharonwe's been so busy torturing the important folks he forgot, or perhaps discounted, the quiet unassuming servants. If they're quiet and unassuming, they must be insignificant anyway. ...Just a thought or so. But I like the idea of Mithrellas hiding herself from Tharonwe, and "letting " him conveniently forget her.

I think it was the part about Mithrellas also forgetting her name; that would to me signify a weakness of spirit that wouldn't jibe with the strength I've come to see in her. I realize that the forgetting had to do with the curse, which I suppose I could allow to stand as it is, but somehow I just can't see Mithrellas giving in completely to such a curse.

I do like your idea about Mithrellas causing Tharonwe to forget about her amid all his concern about Amroth, Erebemlin, and Roy Edwards and Indil, even - which would be perfect irony.

littlemanpoet · 06-01-2008, 02:59 PM

Yet more dreams:

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=209
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=202
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=144
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...20&postcount=9

Don't think I missed any, but who can be sure? Next, the songs.

mark12_30 · 06-01-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Whew!

Don't worry about the outline. The story that is being finished up is what counts, not the old outline. Thanks for the reassurance.

By the way, I have not forgotten about Jorje. His role will yet be critical. You will see.

Er, well, I am not WORRIED about theoutline, but I would like to know which parts set off your alarms. Mithrellas is stronger than... what? Specifically?

Wanting to be on the same page, and all.

mark12_30 · 05-31-2008, 07:48 AM

I say, it's raining! We were going to go to the local forest, and hike. BUt we will do our hiking virtually, beside Frodo and Sam. Today we are going to watch Fellowship!

And in between, or besides, or maybe during the "geez couldn't he have put something more important into this space" parts, I wll be poking about in the old story, and maybe adding a bit to the new book... but I will check here periodically.

Alak-- Don't feel like you have to review EVERYTHING before you can post ANYTHING. If something is out of whack we will gently and kindly give you a nudge, so give it a shot. We trust you!

05-30-2008, 05:12 PM	#1
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Top of the first book: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10385 Top of the first discussion thread: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10334 What happens next as Nimrodel relives the past: Mithrellas, stung by Nimrodel's fury, will linger near her, til Imrazor finds her, courts her, and marries her. She leaves Nimrodel long enough to raise a family. ... From the first discussion thread, towards the bottom of post # 9: After Mithrellas leaves Imrazor she returns to the mountains to look for Nimrodel. She travels far west (towards Lefnui?) and finds the wandering Nimrodel, and persuades her to return to Edhellond and look for Amroth. (While Mithrellas was married to Imrazor and raising a family: ) Nimrodel has found Amroth's corpse (uncorrupt) washed up on shore, somewhere on the Belfalas. Since he is uncorrupt, she hopes in the possibility he might return to that body instead of being reborn as an infant, so she lays him in a few feet of clear water (a la dead marshes, only he doesn't rot) and waits (for a couple of decades) over his body for him to return. But the Valar don't want to send Amroth back; They want her to come west; so they wait, hoping that she'll catch the next ship. Amroth is stuck in Mandos, waiting and hoping. Nimrodel waits beside Amroth's body for a long time; however, Nothing Happens, (while Mithrellas and Imrazor are happily building a family, and Amroth is waiting in the Halls of Mandos for her to sail west.) and eventually Nimrodel despairs and loses her reason. She returns alone to the mountains, where she finds the Stone of Erech. She waits there, drawn to it in her madness and despair, and the dead come. She recognizes their despair in hers, and chooses to stay with them, dwelling in her memories of Amroth while she is awake, and dreaming of him while she sleeps. In her madness she willingly participates in their curse. The Valar realize this and further refuse to send Amroth back to her while she is under the curse. Mithrellas finds her, after a long hard search. She waits on her, and takes care of her. For long years they dwell there, til Nimrodel forgets her name and takes the names given her by the dead. but Although the curse burdens, opresses and wearies her, Mithrellas brings food to Nimrodel and never abandons her. When Elessar breaks the curse and frees the Dead during the War of the Ring, Nimrodel and Mithrellas are freed as well. (Nimrodel is, however, still mad, completely living in memories of Amroth.) They wander west from Erech, through the cleft above the penninsula that juts into the bay of Belfalas, straight to the coast. They follow the coast up through Enedwaith over the mouth of the Isen, up into Miniriath, to the mouth of the Baranduin. There they halt; short of the havens, they turn south and return to Belfalas. EDIT: or to the vale where they are now. This progression, with the dreams and songs, should wrap up the tale. Hopefully we can use this as a framework, or as a warp, weaving in the woof of the dreams & songs as we go. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. Last edited by mark12_30; 06-01-2008 at 03:33 PM.

05-31-2008, 07:48 AM	#10
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	I say, it's raining! We were going to go to the local forest, and hike. BUt we will do our hiking virtually, beside Frodo and Sam. Today we are going to watch Fellowship! And in between, or besides, or maybe during the "geez couldn't he have put something more important into this space" parts, I wll be poking about in the old story, and maybe adding a bit to the new book... but I will check here periodically. Alak-- Don't feel like you have to review EVERYTHING before you can post ANYTHING. If something is out of whack we will gently and kindly give you a nudge, so give it a shot. We trust you! __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

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05-31-2008, 07:45 AM	#2
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Yike! Have I misinterpreted Mithrellas as too strong of spirit? More dreams: http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=391 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=378 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=373 I'm out of time for now. More later.

06-01-2008, 06:43 AM	#4
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Whew! Don't worry about the outline. The story that is being finished up is what counts, not the old outline. Thanks for the reassurance. By the way, I have not forgotten about Jorje. His role will yet be critical. You will see.

06-01-2008, 07:47 AM	#5
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	More dreams: http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=329 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=299 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=297 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=285 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=282 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=270 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=252 Pages 1 - 6 yet to go, and then I can start on the songs. I have a plot contradiction to deal with. In posts 290ff, Tharonwe forces Raefindan to dream of himself as Imrazor and of Imrazor killing Mithrellas. Then in recent posts I have had Tharonwe not having realized Mithrellas was even there, caring for Nimrodel. How on earth do I resolve this? What was Tharonwe's reason for trying to confuse Raefindan regarding Mithrellas in the first place? Ack!

06-01-2008, 02:59 PM	#8
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Yet more dreams: http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=209 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=202 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...&postcount=144 http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...20&postcount=9 Don't think I missed any, but who can be sure? Next, the songs.