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Old 06-02-2008, 02:00 PM   #1
Aganzir
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Originally Posted by skip spence View Post
but it would still give people the impression he was armed with a heavy battlesword. And I don't think it was commonplace for people carrying such around in their everyday business. As his "job" as a ranger involved keeping a low profile, is would be unwise to draw attention to himself like this.
Still, he was the chieftain of the dúnedain and the rightful heir of two kingdoms. While I agree that he certainly had to have another weapon to actually use, I consider the shards of Narsil a status symbol. Served also as an ID.

I can't remember reading anywhere that Aragorn carried the shards with him also other times than when he met the hobbits. But I think that their symbolic value might reach that of a good luck talisman of some kind, and therefore it was understandable that Aragorn had them with him at least then.

edit: xed with skip spence
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:42 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by skip spence
but it would still give people the impression he was armed with a heavy battlesword. And I don't think it was commonplace for people carrying such around in their everyday business. As his "job" as a ranger involved keeping a low profile, is would be unwise to draw attention to himself like this.
I have to disagree with you, to some extent. Breelanders recognised rangers as foreigners, so what would be the use to try to stay hidden? I imagine all rangers carried a sword, so he would draw more attention to himself by not having one.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:27 AM   #3
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I think it likely that the shards of Narsil usually remained in Rivendell and did not accompany Aragorn in during all his Third Age exploits. Practically speaking, a broken sword, as Aragorn himself recognises, is of no real use.

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He drew out his sword, and they saw that the blade was indeed broken a foot below the hilt. "Not much use is it, Sam?" said Strider. "But the time is near when it shall be forged anew."

Strider, FotR
Reading the last line I get the impression that Strider had only recently taken to carrying the sword around, as he senses his destiny approaching. Perhaps he was carrying it on that particular occasion as a talisman of sorts, taking the sword that separated Sauron from his Ring as he went in search of the Ringbearer.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:08 PM   #4
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Nope Morwen, I believe he was given both the Shards of Narsil as well as the Ring of Barahir as he left Rivendell and carried them around on his voyages through Middle-earth.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:22 PM   #5
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Nope Morwen, I believe he was given both the Shards of Narsil as well as the Ring of Barahir as he left Rivendell and carried them around on his voyages through Middle-earth.
Yes, I believe Miggy is right here. Or at least that's how it looks from the tale of Aragorn and Arwen and from the Tale of the Years:

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2951 - (...)Elrond reveals to "Estel" his true name and ancestry, and delivers to him the shards of Narsil. Arwen, newly returned from Lórien, meets Aragorn in the woods of Imladris. Aragorn goes out into the Wild.
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:06 PM   #6
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Nope Morwen, I believe he was given both the Shards of Narsil as well as the Ring of Barahir as he left Rivendell and carried them around on his voyages through Middle-earth.
Because he's a gangsta and does what he wants.

We can talk about practicality all we like, but ultimately one of the things that sets heroes apart is that they do things that are impractical for normal people. Like traveling enormous distances by foot in short periods of time, or summoning dead warriors, or mastering Palantiri, or carrying around one's shattered ancestral blade. It's a myth. Heroes do crazy stuff.

If we are going to be all realistic, though, then I'd bet that Aragorn had a short bow along with him and a hunting knife. If he did carry a "useful" sword with him in addition to Narsil, it probably would have been something short, and he probably would have only brought it with him on particular journeys.
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:21 PM   #7
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I imagine all rangers carried a sword, so he would draw more attention to himself by not having one.
That's where our imaginations differ then. I imagine the rangers as almost disregarded by the likes of Breelanders, as anonymous strangers traveling in ragged clothes, yet behind the scenes working hard to protect their ancestoral homeland. Perhaps they carried a light bow for hunting and a knife, much needed in the wilderness. I don't see them carrying around swords like Narsil no (it must have been a long and heavy sword, designed for fighting iron-clad enemies in open battle; does Aragorn swing it two-handedly btw?) and now, thinking about it, I don't believe JRRT envisioned Aragorn carrying the shards with him at all times. That is absurd, after all. He served in the armies of both Gondor and Rohan and presumably fought with them on several occations too. To be carrying around the shards of a useless sword in a real battle would be risking the lifes of his friends for the sentimental value of a relic. Would Aragorn do that? So I must agree with Morwen: the shards would've been locked away in uncle Elrond's safe on most of Aragorn's daring adventures.

Edit (x-posted w Gwathagor): The quote provided by Legate of Amon Lanc only really proves that Aragorn recieved the relics. It doesn't imply that he carried the them around, or that he did not.
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Last edited by skip spence; 06-04-2008 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by skip spence View Post
That's where our imaginations differ then. I imagine the rangers as almost disregarded by the likes of Breelanders, as anonymous strangers traveling in ragged clothes, yet behind the scenes working hard to protect their ancestoral homeland. Perhaps they carried a light bow for hunting and a knife, much needed in the wilderness. I don't see them carrying around swords like Narsil no (it must have been a long and heavy sword, designed for fighting iron-clad enemies in open battle; does Aragorn swing it two-handedly btw?) and now, thinking about it, I don't believe JRRT envisioned Aragorn carrying the shards with him at all times. That is absurd, after all. He served in the armies of both Gondor and Rohan and presumably fought with them on several occations too. To be carrying around the shards of a useless sword in a real battle would be risking the lifes of his friends for the sentimental value of a relic. Would Aragorn do that? So I must agree with Morwen: the shards would've been locked away in uncle Elrond's safe on most of Aragorn's daring adventures.

Edit (x-posted w Gwathagor): The quote provided by Legate of Amon Lanc only really proves that Aragorn recieved the relics. It doesn't imply that he carried the them around, or that he did not.
I also have a hard time seeing the greatest huntsman and traveler of the age lugging around a broken heirloom just because. This is a man who spent years in the wild, served in Gondor and Rohan, who ventured " far into the East and deep into the south". If you are going to spend years at a time away from home, making many a perilous journey, a broken object of no immediate use that would take up space and weigh you down is not the first object that you should pack.

I think that the handover that Legate and the Might refer to is symbolic : Aragorn has come of age, Elrond says you are now entitled to have these things. But I don't see that this automatically means that Aragorn was then required to take them along with him wherever he went. Why remove them after all from a place where they had been safe for centuries?
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Last edited by Morwen; 06-04-2008 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:48 AM   #9
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I see our points of view really differ at this point, but I am going to post my view on this:

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Why remove them after all from a place where they had been safe for centuries?
My answer would be, because it is no longer their place. The tale has moved on. In the same way as Bilbo could no longer carry the Ring (although it's somewhat clumsy comparison). Anyway, the point is, Aragorn, from this point on, takes the responsibility on himself - the responsibility for the fate for the bloodline as ancient as... well, very ancient. It is interesting also, that right after learning this, the first person Aragorn meets and tells her about his ancestry makes him feel the ancestry not as noble and important (cf. the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen). Something like a fail-safe against arrogance this early on? And with this meeting comes some sort of different reason for him to stay true to his mission - or a thing to think of at least for now, something which will remain sowed in his heart and reveal in full strength at the moment he and Arwen make a promise to each other on Cerin Amroth. But to return to the topic of the sword, this is something significant and crucial to his personal tale - which was the continuation of the tale of all his ancestors - and so I believe he would carry it with him all the time.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:06 AM   #10
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Well we'll have to agree to disagree.

Of course the sword is significant to Aragorn's personal tale. I've never said that it wasn't. I just don't believe that this can be treated as definitive proof that during all the years of his travels he must have taken the sword with him everywhere.

I also don't think that the "Bilbo hands over the Ring" comparison is apt. It is important, inevitable that the Ring must leave the physical custody and safekeeping of one bearer and go to another. The new Ringbearer has to become the Ring's physical custodian.
Aragorn having physical custody of the sword is not important in the same way. To me, what was more important on the day that Elrond "delivered to him the heirlooms of his house" was the revelation of his true name and "who he was and whose son". It is that knowledge, not the possession/custody of objects, that makes Aragorn take responsibility on his self and what prompts him to his subsequent deeds.
I therefore disagree that in the aftermath of Elrond's revelation to Aragorn that Rivendell is no longer the place for the heirlooms (ring and sword). In my opinion, the physical location of those objects isn't the point of the revelation. From that day forward Aragorn may certainly do with them as he pleases. But, Elrond isn't after all telling him to take his things and go.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:26 PM   #11
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Well, you heard my opinion. I am not taking you yours, I am offering the view I stand by. The revelation were words by which the heritage was revealed and dedicated. Aragorn "took it" by hearing it. Then there was the physical act of actually taking the sword. By having it, Aragorn simply symbolized even in apparent way (and not just in his mind) his connection to the story, the continuity. I don't want to "downplay it" to symbolism, quite the opposite, I think that's actually the point - inside the tale - and it will show he takes it seriously (in the terms given by the tale).
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