Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Gwathagor]

Thanks, that's helpful.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I clicked 'Submit Reply' accidentally with the above post.

[Gwathagor]

Now that's suspicious.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I gave continuous reasons for believing phantom to be a baddie. I backed up with posts and reasoning. Sally did not. Her vote appeared almost random. I am not like some people *coughMaccough* who only distrust people who don't agree with them. I don't care if you agree with me or not. If you don't have good reasoning, or your reasoning is clearly faulty, I will suspect you. It's as simple as that. I'm not convinced that Sally truly thought phantom was guilty, or that she wasn't trying to start something in that direction.

Honestly, you're sort of right. I'm not used to Phantom's behavior, and from anyone else it would scream "vote me vote me" so I did. I didn't expect him to get lynched (and at the moment I'm happy he didn't; if nothing else he's entertaining) but of the people whose posts I had time to look at, he looked the most suspicious at the time. I'll try to be more careful with my votes in the future though.



Oh, and for Gwath. Don't expect typical Silly Sally this game, at least not as much. Much less time on the interwebs, so I don't have as much opportunity to respond; hence the short posts and lack of explanation for yesterday's vote. This is my big chunk of internet; most of the time I've got about ten or fifteen minutes. Just a warning for all of you who expect a completely crazed and cracked Sally; I don't have time to be entertaining, at least not right now. Doing my best though, loves. Not defending my actions, just letting you know what's going on. And in my defense, I did warn that I wouldn't be particularly participative during the game.


EDIT: x'd with everyone since my potential future mother-in-law

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

I clicked 'Submit Reply' accidentally with the above post.

Dork.


Ummmm, I mean, silly father of mine. Perhaps you need some sleep? I could fetch you some tea....special tea....Hold up. Who's laughing maniacally in the distance?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

hence the short posts and lack of explanation for yesterday's vote.

Strangely enough, that wasn't what bothered me. It was that "maybe, maybe not" thing from yesterDay that made me raise my eyebrows.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by the phantom

So that makes me think you don't really believe it, or that you wouldn't mind dying to expose a Wizard. But which one do you think you are exposing, eh? If you think I'm the GW then you're probably evil. If you think I'm the EW then you must be aware that I will kill you, thus I seriously doubt that you are gifted (a gifted would not take that sort of risk).

At first I didn't think this made sense, but now I realize it did.

Huh, was reading over, and realized that Lommy, Greenie, and Volo all three had suspicion of Aganzir.

Volo openly agreed with Lommy (and we know now he was the seer, yeah, whatever), but Greenie simply tosses this in about Aganzir, while remaining on her general course towards voting for Gwath:

Originally Posted by Greenie

(there is something in her overall manner that just doesn't sit right with me).

Originally Posted by Lommy

Agan is definitely not sitting right with me. Really. There's something too... cunning and sneaky in her manner.

It's interesting. I think Lommy did some good leading/planting of ideas there.

Oh, and yeah, I started talking about Nerwen fairly early on, too, along with Cailin.

Originally Posted by Sally

Not defending my actions, just letting you know what's going on. And in my defense, I did warn that I wouldn't be particularly participative during the game.

Hehe.

[satansaloser2005]

Blast! I don't want to vote this early, but I'm not positive I'll have internet during work tomorrow (on the off chance the people whose wireless I mooch from have problems with it or something). But I'm not voting this early again, at least not toDay. But I need to leave my friends alone; I need to get back home and take care of things while I've still got power to do it.

I'll hang around for a bit, but if I don't post again before they kick me out, g'night.

[satansaloser2005]

Hehe.

Hehe. I know, I read that post and facepalmed about six times. You know what I mean though, DurIE dear.

[Diamond18]

What is with all the vote recaps?

It doesn't matter how many times different people recap the votes, they're not changing.

*stares at the screen for a moment*

Nope, still the same.

It's like.... "Let's all post the exact same information, but with different formatting!"

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

What is with all the vote recaps?

It doesn't matter how many times different people recap the votes, they're not changing.
*stares at the screen for a moment*

Nope, still the same.

It's like.... "Let's all post the exact same information, but with different formatting!"

Di, when you're older, you'll understand that adults like to make themselves look important. Restating information in a different yet useless manner is one of the ways to do so.

[the phantom]

The voting, in case you haven't seen it lately-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath
McCab for Ner
Mac for Legate
Lal for Ner
Dur for Ner
Lommy for Agan
Di for Ner
Volo for Agan
Brin for Agan
Legate for Agan
Agan for Ner

Ner- 6
tp- 4
Agan- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1
Legate- 1

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

The voting, in case you haven't seen it lately-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath
McCab for Ner
Mac for Legate
Lal for Ner
Dur for Ner
Lommy for Agan
Di for Ner
Volo for Agan
Brin for Agan
Legate for Agan
Agan for Ner

Ner- 6
tp- 4
Agan- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1
Legate- 1

I hate you....

[Roa_Aoife]

phantom, this is one of those unhelpful things I was mentioning yesterDay.....

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I hate you....

Such hostility.

[the phantom]

I really feel like I'm stuck in a jam with Roa.

The more she goes after me the more I feel like I should fight with her, and yet at the same time the more I am inclined to believe that she is innocent.

What to do?

And phantom's posting thus far had really convinced me that he is not on the villagers' side, whatever his role may be.

Which villagers? We all live here don't we?

But your point about an EW picking me- I can't see anything wrong with your logic. Lhuna's as well.

However, do you truly believe that Sally was "trying to start something in that (my) direction"? If so, then that would speak towards my innocence. Which one do you feel more strongly?

[satansaloser2005]

EDIT: the following is for Durie. Blasted x'posting Phantom.

Indeed. Hey, you know you're thinking it too.



All right, that's enough for now. I'm out for the night. Hope to be back sometime tomorrow around lunchtime (4 hours pre-DL or so) and vote, so give me something concrete to base it on (i.e. "I'm a wolf, lynch me, kthxbye")

Good night everyone!

[Lhunardawen]

Watch it, sally.

phantom dear, it's actually easier on the eyes. Thanks, love.

Gee, I crossposted with a million people.

[the phantom]

phantom, this is one of those unhelpful things I was mentioning yesterDay.....

Heh heh... but notice that my unhelpful stuff is always quite amusing, and completely and blatantly on purpose. Surely that gets me some points?

G'nite Sally. I'm going pretty soon too.

[Brinniel]

Just some things on yesterDay:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Of those I've seen acting suspicious, he's the most submarine-like.

I feel kinda stupid for asking this, but what exactly do you mean by "submarine-like"? Maybe you've already explained this, but with six pages of Day 1 I'm bound to miss something...

Originally Posted by Volo in #150

Actually, Lommy made a very good point about Agan. She [Agan] certainly tosses suspicions that way and this way and banters an unnerving ammount of time. At points I'm not sure whether she's joking or not, and that I regard dangerous, because she can always decide later which way she meant it. Ok - maybe I'm only complaining that she's joking at all as I'm refering to her suspicions in #68.
But what is more suspicious is her answer to Lommy's suspicion. I don't think it makes a difference and it certainly doesn't work as a defence.

I think I missed this post yesterDay, but it's a good quote on how I also feel about Aganzir. Especially about the bantering...what Volo wrote here is how I feel but was unable to put into exact words.

When it comes to suspicious voting, Eonwe, Shasta, Izzy, McCaber, and Legate stick out to me.

I do agree Eonwe's vote isn't very well reasoned. But I think this is his first game (am I right?). So this could easily be a newbie error...though such a mistake can be made by both a wolf and an ordo.

Shasta and McCaber also bandwagon (for different people) in their votes with not much reason to back it up.

Izzy's vote for Roa felt like it came from nowhere. I couldn't find anywhere else where she strongly suspected her...but maybe I missed it...

And my dear brother Legate...voting for Aganzir but not wanting her lynched is very odd. And his explanation for it confused me even more. (Hmm...maybe it's because old love never dies ) But as suspicious as it is...I wonder if it's too suspicious. I mean, would a wolf actually act in such a way? Only if the EW told him to...

Sidenote: What's with all this silliness going on? I admit I find it funny now, but I have the feeling this is going to get annoying in the near future when I'll have to do twice as much scrolling as normal when reviewing past posts...

[Diamond18]

See?

With a brother like that, who can blame me for developing a wax addiction.

Originally Posted by Gwath

...and we all know that You're Gonna Have To Serve Somebody.

I like to think of myself as self-serving.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Sidenote: What's with all this silliness going on? I admit I find it funny now, but I have the feeling this is going to get annoying in the near future when I'll have to do twice as much scrolling as normal when reviewing past posts...

It's already annoying to me, :P. I won't lie, that was part of the reason behind my vote. Most of it, though, was the simple fact that even if Phantom is innocent, he doesn't seem to be helping very much. I wonder (assuming he's a wolf) if the EW didn't tell him to draw as much attention from everyone as he can... it certainly seems to be a possibility, given that most of the recent discussion has revolved around him.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by the phantom

However, do you truly believe that Sally was "trying to start something in that (my) direction"? If so, then that would speak towards my innocence. Which one do you feel more strongly?

No, the two are not mutually exclusive, especially if you are both wolves who don't know each other, or Sally is wolf who doesn't realize you are the EW, or she's the EW and she just wants to kill you to look good (as I did with Nogrod in the previous DW). So, once again, you post faulty logic in an attempt to clear yourself.

And how many times have we seen the "I know you suspect me, but I think your just a mistaken innocent," line from a wolf trying to not appear overly defensive?

[Roa_Aoife]

And to add to my above post, even if Sally is evil and knows your identity, since when have fellow baddies NOT suspected each other or cast an early vote that may or may not get said fellow lynched? I mean, it's one of the most common tactics.

Really, phantom, you have to come up with better than that...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Now that's suspicious.

Yes, it is. Glad we understand each other.

I also happen to be the WIZARD OF APATHY.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

Yes, it is. Glad we understand each other.

I also happen to be the WIZARD OF APATHY.

Hey, I thought you're the Wizard of Insanity?

Fine.

I'm the Wizard of Insanity. I challenge you to a duel.

[Durelin]

This is going back a bit, but...

Originally Posted by Legate

I don't like this that much. Not sure why, but following someone with a suspicion like that... my dear sally does not seem suspicious in any way, she is behaving like she's always, and also she simply voted and that's it. Nothing weird there.

I quite agree that I don't like that much, either, but not because I think sally seems innocent or normal or whatever, but because those lines are just so...so typical. A question, not really a statement. Off-handed. A devil-may-care accusation, when she said Aganzir was suspicious seeming for making accusations in such a way.

Hmm. It's after 1 in the morning.

Originally Posted by Brinniel about Volo quote

I think I missed this post yesterDay, but it's a good quote on how I also feel about Aganzir. Especially about the bantering...what Volo wrote here is how I feel but was unable to put into exact words.

Hmm...now that you know he's the seer, you totally know how he feels...

I am almost positive Eonwe has played before. To add to your list, Celuien also made a random vote, as she said so herself. Really all of those are examples of 'submarines'. Little posting, slip by unnoticed.

I think I'm just going to sit back and watch phantom and Roa go at it now. Or sleep.

[the phantom]

Okay, it's time for me to get a little bit serious here....

Originally Posted by Roa

or she's the EW and she just wants to kill you to look good

Originally Posted by Roa

And to add to my above post, even if Sally is evil and knows your identity, since when have fellow baddies NOT suspected each other or cast an early vote that may or may not get said fellow lynched? I mean, it's one of the most common tactics.

N...O.... NO.

Not at that stage of the game.

No way.

The goal for the EW and WWs was to not get any of their team lynched yesterday, for if they were successful it would mean likely getting an extra kill the next night and every night after that.

Day 1 was not the day to pull stunts. Absolutely not.

You can try to rationalize my explanation away any way you wish, but if you sit there and read what I say and think about the odds and percentages, what I'm saying here is correct. The EW and WWs had an excellent chance of skating by on Day 1, and the reward for doing it would be an extra nightly kill. There is NO WAY they pass that up.

At least not if they think even remotely the way I do.

Originally Posted by Roa

especially if you are both wolves who don't know each other

That wouldn't happen. The EW no doubt gave the WWs some sort of lynching instructions. A safe list or something, or perhaps different lists to different WWs. Either way, I have no doubt that the EW took steps to ensure that the WWs had as high a chance as possible of surviving Day 1.

If you bring up this issue again I'll simply link you back to this post.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Sally

EDIT: mistakenly italicized Ka....whoops!

Awh, I felt so loved for a moment. (no worries, I wasn't around to see my blessed innocence).

Originally Posted by Di

4. Lynch her! Dance in her blood!

Hey, hey... Family standing right here.

Nah, it's cool. Agan will probably kill me in my sleep eventually.

Originally Posted by tp

Bingo. Since I was at risk, I was holding my vote till the very end.

At moments, this all reminds me you could be a very clever cat.


Anyways, back to posts.

Legate's flustered vote at the end reminds me of (I'm not 100% sure on this, so if you know for sure please correct me. Aganzir should know, we squared off together) a few of Volo's WW's back where he turned out to be a gifted and was unfortunately killed by wolves that second Night. I believe he had a similar situation of voting, and being considered suspicious for it as well. While I cannot be completely certain that this was the case this time, I'm going to find it a bit hard to place suspicion on him simply for first-day indecisiveness (world knows I'm 'guilty' of it as well, take Legate's last WW for an example. I don't even think I voted the first day because I hadn't a clue).
Simply put, first days are never worth their trouble until afterwards, and unfortunately being hesitant is more likely to have you killed than being rash. I'd rather read more of his posts and see toDay how things go.
I still have three more pages to sift through.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I find it highly amusing that I tend to survive as a wolf and be suspected as an innocent.

I'd rather trust Lommy (or not, if you're somehow covering for her) on this than myself, but from personal experiences with Aganzir the wolf and innocent this is typical. Though, maybe I might be blinded a bit, but I distinctly remember the first time I played with her (yes, a wolf) she was a bit more subtle around voting time. If I was out harvesting likely wolves to act in my best interest I'd definately pick Agan because she's a natural, but not immediately because it is likely there would be suspicion. I'd rather save my best wolf for last, when everyone's gotten, scryed, etc. to the point where thinking someone is an actual wolf is old news. Save time and wolfy abilities and recruit a player like Agan 'till later... Unless she was the EW, then well, things obviously would be far different.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't really understand this Nerwen bandwagon, and I'd rather let her live.

Obviously stuck out to me, but for all I know this could be fodder for either argument that she's innocent or not.

I'm still sizing her motives now, but so far she seems her usual self, or just more open.

Gwath is oddly quiet, I would have expected more from him by now, but I won't presume too much. (Nor let you fly right under the radar so easily if you don't mean well...)

Now it's time to question myself!
I thought Celuien was acting rather suspicious yesterday with contradictory arguments so soon between posts, but after reading the discussion thread I feel rather bratty for the vote considering how busy they were with moving at the moment (plus, obviously an EW would want more available wolves to channel the rest of us where they want us, durrrr.). Still somewhat suspicious naturally, but I can see I did absolutely nothing costructive and threw everything to the wind.

Originally Posted by Di

It's like.... "Let's all post the exact same information, but with different formatting!"

Vista comes to WW...

I'm still trying to form some reasonable theory for Volo's killing besides the possibility of being found out (a stretch too?), and so far I only can surmise reasons on his behavior (oddly, cheery and a bit well seated, but I guess anyone being a seer would have some hope of confidence).
I'll try looking again in the morning and after spending a sleepless night mulling over the whole ordeal and see if anything comes out of it, though I can guess everyone else will know before I do which is a good sign.
See you in the morning.

[Gwathagor]

THE Ka: I've been quieter than usual. My job keeps me busy during the day (and through the DL) and random other stuff (movies, grandparents, dishes) has taken up a lot of time in the evenings.

And, I'm going to have to vote way early again because I won't be around for the deadline.

[Roa_Aoife]

Finally, you get serious, phantom. I've been wanting that from you.

You may be right in that the EW would not want to risk it. But I was the EW, and I did risk it. Heck, I was down a wolf (due to the double pick fiasco) and I still did it. So your definite "NO" is definitely not definite.

Also, I don't know why you are so certain that the EW gave her wolves possible lynch candidates. I never did, and my wolves did just fine. The GW did something like that for the entire village, but only after his role had been revealed. In fact, I even encouraged my wolves to lynch as they liked. Someone acts suspiciously? Lynch them! It makes the wolves harder to trace because they aren't having to lie about their suspicions. So, really, your whole hypothesis does not match up to previous experience.

Furthermore, even if we had a "playing it safe" EW (a possibility), it does not disclude the other two possibilities: a. that you and Sally are both wolves who don't know it, or b. that sally is a wolf who doesn't realize you are the EW.

Still further, were you the EW, I would not expect you to kill people who suspected you, as your exceptionally thinly veiled threat towards Lhuna implied.

Edit: crossed posted with Ka and Gwath

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by the phantom

N...O.... NO.

Not at that stage of the game.

No way.

This whole diatribe (edited because I dislike gigantic quotes) seems kind of funny, in light of the fact that Roa did exactly that in the last game with Nogrod. And won.

Xposted with Roa. See? My memory isn't faulty. Ha!

[the phantom]

Yes, you did it in the last DW village, but you couldn't gain an immediate extra kill that night either.

And obviously, as I now see, you must not think/play/plan even remotely the same way I do.

To sum myself up- I am logical.

I look and see "What do you know- the odds say we will lynch an innocent on Day 1, and if that happens, we gain an extra kill! And the odds say that the village/GW probably can't hope to be right more than 50% of the time, thus by simply surviving Day 1 we likely gain an extra kill EVERY SINGLE NIGHT!"

Ask anyone who has been a WW with me before, or read my pms post-game. When I am a WW I never ever want to sacrifice another WW even in a regular game because it adds an extra day to the village. You sacrifice a WW when he's been dreamed of or if he's already as good as dead. That's it. Always protect your brother and sister Wolves if you can. And if it gets you caught then you just didn't play well enough.

So your definite "NO" is definitely not definite.

It is for me. And this is about me, is it not?

How can you honestly believe that an EW would pass up the chance to gain extra kills from Night 2 onward just to pull some stupid stunt? What a terrible trade off! "Hee hee, yeah, let's purposefully kill a WW and miss out on like four free kills! That sounds smart!"

Seriously. The thought literally boggles my mind. It almost makes me angry to hear someone suggest that it might've been a good idea yesterday.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yes, you did it in the last DW village, but you couldn't gain an immediate extra kill that night either.

And obviously, as I now see, you must not think/play/plan even remotely the same way I do.

To sum myself up- I am logical.

When you choose to be, yes, but you haven't been this game. And no, I am different from you.

I look and see "What do you know- the odds say we will lynch an innocent on Day 1, and if that happens, we gain an extra kill! And the odds say that the village/GW probably can't hope to be right more than 50% of the time, thus by simply surviving Day 1 we likely gain an extra kill EVERY SINGLE NIGHT!"

That's very nice, it's true. However, there are more options than that available. The EW may be willing to give up that extra kill for one Night in order to act out another more sinister plan. Not all of us think that simply, and it's folly to suggest that the current EW must think that way.

Ask anyone who has been a WW with me before, or read my pms post-game. When I am a WW I never ever want to sacrifice another WW even in a regular game because it adds an extra day to the village. You sacrifice a WW when he's been dreamed of or if he's already as good as dead. That's it. Always protect your brother and sister Wolves if you can. And if it gets you caught then you just didn't play well enough.

You see, if you read my pms post game, I encourage my fellows to sacrifice me if necessary, and let them know that I will do the same. And you will see that no one has ever been able figure out who my fellows are after I die. But this isn't about who has what style or even which style is better. It's about making assumptions about the EW's behavior which have little backing other than your own preference, which the EW may or may not share. So, you can't expect us to rule out this possibility just because you wouldn't do it.

It is for me. And this is about me, is it not?

Actually in the post you're quoting, I was specifically talking about what the EW may possibly do. So it's not about you unless you're the EW. Are you?

How can you honestly believe that an EW would pass up the chance to gain extra kills from Night 2 onward just to pull some stupid stunt? What a terrible trade off! "Hee hee, yeah, let's purposefully kill a WW and miss out on like four free kills! That sounds smart!"

Because I did when I was the EW. And, if you weren't paying attention that game, I won. So, it does sound smart, in fact. You're thinking only in statistics, but this game is not about statistics. Personality has far more effect in this game.

Seriously. The thought literally boggles my mind. It almost makes me angry to hear someone suggest that it might've been a good idea yesterday.

Then what I did to Nogrod must have soundly ticked you off. You're right to say it's a risk. It is also a risk I chose to take, and so I would not exclude the idea of someone else taking that same risk. You keep saying it's not possible. You could only know that if you were the EW.

[Cailín]

So they got a Seer. Bad luck? Or something more? I suppose the evil team were trying to guess who the gifteds were -- considering who a wizard might choose, and also perhaps any subtle hints within their words. I'm not sure what these would be but let's have a look. (Mind you, it's also likely wolves wouldn't want a kill that leads back to them).

Volo

#9 role-playing

#55 madness, madness! and dangerous, dangerous! Funny stuff from Volo, but could it be interpreted as a sign?

#84 Numerous vague suspicions: Green, sally, phantom, Celuien, Cailin.

#85 Mentions his typo ''We Wolves''. Maybe mind is stretching too much here but could that be interpreted in a different way?

#114 Nothing really

#128 Chastises Lalaith somewhat

#133 Questions Legate

#150 Suspects Aganzir, but also agrees with Aganzir in suspecting Legate

#154 Defends phantom

#159 Questions Eonwe

#163, 173 Nothing of note

#194 Speculation about wizard choices (and #201 I suppose)

#209 Votes Aganzir

(Plus 3 other joke posts)

Kitanna

#13 role-playing

#60 she uses the word ''blind'' Interpreted as hint?

#93 ''Random vote'' for Mormegil


I can't immediately see too much in there but I'll think on it.

Apologies to Nerwen, who turned out to be sweet and innocent. I must say I was a bit flabbergasted at the way people followed my vote though.

I have one more, possibly crackpot, theory at the moment, but it's one of those that requires the day to play out; so I won't reveal it yet. Let's just say someone else is looking mighty suspicious to me today.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The dork has filled in properly the product of his lack of proper muscular control here.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by me

I am logical.

Originally Posted by Roa

When you choose to be, yes, but you haven't been this game.

You don't know that.

You may think I'm being illogical. But perhaps someone who has been in a great great many games with me (morm for instance) might be thinking, "It looks illogical, but I know that he must think he is accomplishing something."

Originally Posted by Roa

You see, if you read my pms post game, I encourage my fellows to sacrifice me if necessary, and let them know that I will do the same.

The key word is necessary.

Originally Posted by Roa

You're thinking only in statistics, but this game is not about statistics. Personality has far more effect in this game.

So, by saying personality has more effect you are admitting that statistics matter too.

They both have a place, and the best position to be in is to have both on your side. Always play the percentages- but with personality.

Originally Posted by Roa

You keep saying it's not possible. You could only know that if you were the EW.

What I'm saying is- it's not possible if I was involved in any way.

If I'm not the EW or a WW then yes, it's possible that such a ploy was used yesterday. Though in my opinion it was lucky for the EW that it didn't work.

[the phantom]

Anyway, it's almost 2 and I have to get up early for work. I'll try and check in then but I won't really be able to post much till around lunch time (6 hours before the deadline).

If you want to continue suspecting me, Roa, go ahead, but please let this particular issue go. I literally find it insulting that someone would think I would make a decision like that- pass up several nights of free kills for a completely unnecessary stunt. So help me but if you continue on this I might just try and get you lynched despite the fact that I think you're probably innocent.

Plus, do you really expect the GW to leave me alone much longer if he didn't already scry me or dream me last night? Please. You know good and well that the GW has been thinking about me more than anyone thus far. If I'm a WW he'll scry me back to the good side. If I'm the EW then you can't lynch me anyway and he'll challenge me on Day 4.

I'm sleepy. See you later.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by the phantom

You don't know that.

You may think I'm being illogical. But perhaps someone who has been in a great great many games with me (morm for instance) might be thinking, "It looks illogical, but I know that he must think he is accomplishing something."

I only know what I see, and what I see you post is bad for the village.

The key word is necessary.

And how do you know what the EW believes is necessary?

So, by saying personality has more effect you are admitting that statistics matter too.

They both have a place, and the best position to be in is to have both on your side. Always play the percentages- but with personality.

You only use flat statistics to support your theories. You aren't using personality at all.

What I'm saying is- it's not possible if I was involved in any way.

I bet the EW would have something to say about that. She has complete control over you. If she chooses to sacrifice you, you have no say in the matter.

If I'm not the EW or a WW then yes, it's possible that such a ploy was used yesterday. Though in my opinion it was lucky for the EW that it didn't work.

And that's only an opinion. My opinion is that it's a worthwhile risk. We disagree. The EW may have yet another opinion. (Although mine is the one that's backed by evidence. )

Edit: cross posted with phantom. I don't think you're the EW, and I don't think you would make that decision. I think you're a wolf, and I think it's a possibility that the current EW did.

[Lhunardawen]

Thoughts on page 2 posts

Mac - said he didn't suspect Roa because he disagreed with her, but seems to have suspected those who agree with her as well.

Originally Posted by Mac

I'm not sure what's worse: Volo making a statement that can be read as a wolf slip (but I remember an ancestor of him making a wolf slip while being innocent, too ), or A Little Green pointing out the quote - without any opinion of her own - in order to have the mob feast on it while keeping her own hands clean.

This suspicion makes me quite suspicious of him. It's too...stretchy.

Originally Posted by Mac

Thank you for liking me, Legate, and apologies for not being able to return that sentiment.

Ring ring ring! Mac is in the red zone.

I still don't understand why some people thought Cailin's list to be suspicious. If that was her way of trying to identify the wolves, then it's her decision. I mean, come on, it's not as if the EW would follow her list. And if she is the EW and with that post tried to influence our lynch choice somewhat, it's not as if we would follow her list. At least she had a mind of her own, shared what's in it, and tried to help out in identifying possible wolves.

Originally Posted by Legate

By the way, Volo's points (like that list 1.2.3.4. of his) make sense, however for some reason I have the feeling that he's not being himself.

Now here's the quote I was looking for! It makes me a bit more suspicious of Leggie (I already am because I think he's an excellent wolf choice) because it could be the reason Volo was killed. If he is thinking as an innocent as he plays, which I think is what should be done by a wolf, he could very well make this comment out loud. Or something. It made sense in my head.

Page 2 summary (I can't just quote everything and say "I agree" or "I disagree" and repeat points):
Mac is highly suspicious.
Legate is suspicious.
Agan and Cailin seem innocent.
Roa is helpful. Thank you, Ma'am.
Durelin feels dodgy.
Sally is quite scary.

Mind you, this is just page 2, so this could change.