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Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
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#1 |
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Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,399
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At the close of the First Age, the assorted half-Elves, Elrond, Elros, Earendil and Elwing, were given the right to choose between being counted among the First Born or Men. Only Elros chose to be mortal, though it seems that Earendil might have so chosen but elected to be counted among Elvenkind due to Elwing's wishes.
Elros' decision bound him and his offspring. I have always believed that the decisions of Elrond, Earendil and Elwing were also binding upon their offspring and that Arwen, by choosing to remain in Middle Earth, did not change her fate. She died out of grief, but entered Mandos and could eventually emerge just like any other Elf that perished. Others believe that the children of Elrond could also choose to be mortal. This would be inconsistent, in comparison to the fate of Elros and his line, so personally I don't follow this interpretation. Another possible line of reasoning is that Arwen, by giving up her right to return into the West and gifting this right to Frodo, became mortal. However, Tolkien has stated in Letters that Frodo, Sam and (if he indeed did follow Legolas) Gimli all died in the West, so the idea of Arwen gifting her immortality to Frodo is flawed. As for the royal line in Dol Amroth, they were longer lived than other Men though this may be more because their Numenorean blood was "purer" than due to the (legendary) marriage with Mithrellas. The choice of the Half-Elven was given only to those living at the close of the First Age, not to later unions between Men and Elves. I use the term "legendary" in connection with Mithrellas, because it is repeatedly mentioned that there were only three unions between Men and Elves, Beren and Luthien, Tuor and Idril and Aragorn and Arwen. All were considered extraordinary events. So the Mithrellas legend may be just that, a story.
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Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land. |
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#2 | |||
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Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#3 |
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Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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It's also the case that Tolkien didn't count Imrazor-Mithrellas as one of the three marriages between Eldar and Edain (Beren-Luthien, Tuor-Idril, Aragorn-Arwen). Whatever definition of "Eldar" he had in mind at the time he wrote the Appendices, apparently Mithrellas as a Silvan elf didn't count.
I'm frankly a little puzzled by "Imrazor the Numenorean." Why would he be singled out as 'Numenorean' from the other Dunedain of Gondor, especially 1900 years after the Downfall? And why would he have an Adunaic name, unlike all the other Men of Gondor whose names were of Sindarin or mixed Sindarin-Quenya form? (Then there's T's plain slip, where he places an "Adrahil of Dol Amroth" in the war of 1844- over a century before Amroth ever came to Edhellond).
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#4 |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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The biggest difference I see between the two half-elven lines, is that Earendil, Elwing, Elrond (+kids) and Elros are related to the three kings of the elves (Elwe through Elwing, Finwe and Ingwe through Earendil, plus Arwen and her brothers are related to Olwe through their mother. By extension this means they're related to every royal Sindar, Teleri, Noldor, and Vanyar elf that exists.)
On the other hand the Princes of Dol Amroth are only related to a mere Silvan elf. I'm not sure what the signifigance is but......
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Busy, Busy, Busy...hoping for more free time soon. |
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#5 | |
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Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 431
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I think the answer lies in the Silmarillion in Manwe's words:
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It is NOT about being Mixed, nor about blood quantum. The Choice was a special grace granted to Earendil and Elwing for their great sacrifice: for coming to Aman to plead the case of the two kindreds before the Valar. |
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#6 | |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Tolkien never really revised the end of Quenta Silmarillion as it stands in HME V (see CJRT's remarks concerning the later cursory corrections however), so here is the unedited version which contains an interesting remark (in any case) about the measure of blood and Mortals...
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#7 | |
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Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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I do think, though, that the depiction of the sorrowful parting of Elrond and Arwen in LotR makes more sense if Arwen's choice is understood as a choice for mortality. It always seemed to me that Elrond expected never to see his daughter again. |
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