Can I just admit that I'm addicted to LotR fanfiction? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morthoron · 06-15-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Some fan fiction can be a great supplement to Tolkien's stories. Those of you who have recommendations - or are looking for some - please check out the *Fan Fiction Information* thread.

Ummm...Estelyn, I can't even access the fan-fic forum any longer. And what I remember from when that forum was arbitrarily condensed months ago, all the newer stories (including mine) were abruptly terminated. I often enjoy reading other folk's fan-fic, but when I can't participate (the only reason seemingly being that I am not one of the 'original and accepted' posters) it leaves a rather bad taste in one's mouth.

By the way, here's the error message:

Error including required files: Can't locate /home2/barrowwight/cgi-bin/vars_display.cgi in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.7 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.6 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at ultimatebb.cgi line 54.
No such file or directory
Make sure these files exist, permissions are set properly, and paths are set correctly.

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-15-2008, 12:32 PM

Morthoron, I get the exact same error message, so it's not a personal problem of yours. I would guess that it's a remnant of the problems we had with forum software in the past. I will check with The Barrow-Wight to see what he can do about it - thanks for alerting the rest of us to the problem!

Lush · 06-15-2008, 03:39 PM

Oh dear.

Btw, anyone know of any good ones that center on Aragorn? The Legolas ones are a dime a dozen, and some are very, very good, but you kinda hate to see a King getting snubbed like that. Especially when you consider the wealth of material to work with there (and no, I don't just mean good looks

).

Lush · 06-16-2008, 02:08 AM

Here's a random observation,

A lot of the fanfics written by young girls mention abuse. Now obviously a checkered past is a staple of the Mary Sue, but you have to wonder how many of the authors are dealing with their own problems this way.

I certainly did when I was a kid. I look over my old stories now, and go, "hmmm, well this badly drawn character with the blue eyes had this nasty thing happen to her and look here, it says 'the scars on her soul.' Bad line, but hmmm."

Fanfiction as low-grade therapy, baby.

Nerwen · 06-22-2008, 09:54 AM

I think it's more often angst at being forced to do the dishes.

Most things you see a lot in fan-fiction are, purely and simply, the result of writers copying each other. People like me who mock it for a hobby– we call ourselves "sporkers", and it's practically a subculture– know that there are a few basic elements that recur with absurd frequency in story after story, e.g.

There is a tenth member of the Fellowship.

Boromir is an evil misogynist.

The main character is Elrond's other daughter.

Or Sauron's daughter.

Legolas and Aragorn are boyhood friends and have adventures together.

Thranduil is a drunk and beats Legolas.

Either Legolas or Aragorn is blind/deaf/mute/crippled/scarred.

A male character has a baby. (AKA "Mpreg".)

Elladan and Elrohir are pranksters (a la the Weasley twins).

And, of course,

Abused girl is hit by a car, wakes up in Middle-earth and finds out that she is the Chosen One.

We actually classify fan-fics by their dominant cliches: "Look, another Blind!Aragorn".

What I'm saying is, there's no way fan-fic authors could be coming up with all this independently.

Another thing: Because it's such a cliche, stories about abuse will attract a lot of negative reviews– Fan-fic authors get very upset at this and defend their stories hotly, but I've never known one to use the grounds that it all happened to her. I know many former "Suethors" who tell me they put all the trauma stuff in because, well, everyone else did and they kind of thought you had to. In fact– I'll come clean– I've produced some pretty melodramatic stories myself!

In fact, judging from my own travesties, I think the other thing at work here is that young writers know that you're meant to give the main character some kind of adversity to overcome, but they just haven't learned any sense of moderation yet.

Edit: I'm not saying every fan-fiction is terrible. There are some very good ones around. It's just that I deliberately seek out bad ones...

Lush · 06-22-2008, 02:47 PM

Like you, I like seeking out the bad ones as well. I think they can be hugely entertaining, and you can pretty much play bingo with all the clichés. I also see sometimes how young authors in particular try the various, ah, staples on the genre on for size and explore what they can do with them. Those I always find interesting.

I also wouldn't underestimate the amount of real abuse survivors who are writing this stuff. Obviously abuse is great for when you're creating faux tension - "Legolas! Oh noes! We can't be together - my creepy uncle once turned me into a newt as a practical joke, and I've just never been the same! I love you! Don't touch me!"

On the other hand, some of the very disturbing and resonating descriptions of abuse are obviously either the result of a great imagination, actual trauma, or some combination thereof.

*cough* When Lush was a wee little girl, she wrote melodramatic prose about her own abuse, which helped her cope. If only fan fiction was around back then. *coughedy cough*

mark12_30 · 06-22-2008, 03:48 PM

An interesting teacher (John Eldridge at RansomedHeart) says that there are six basic desires woven into the fabric of humans. Let's see if I can recall all six.

The desire for a great battle to fight; the desire for a great adventure; the desire for a Beauty to rescue. Versus, the desire to be fought for; the desire for shared adventure (in the process of being fought for); and the desire to be The Beauty.

Another significant desire is the desire to heal. Beauty Heals (insert temporarily disabled hero). I remember this one myself; favorites stories were about rescuing angst-ridden heroes (Mad Lancelot, for instance).

Having said all that, I think most stories are autobiographical to some degree. Especially if they are any good; but even when they are not. Your pardon all, but using the phrase "writing as therapy" simply gains one the label Captain Obvious. What else is it? What else could it possibly be? Any story that we tell, we tell because we are part of a story ourselves, and we remind ourselves of the themes of our story by weaving those themes into the stories we tell.

So a young authoress wants to be Elrond's Other Daughter, the Beauty to be rescued... it comes from those root desires. And the ubiquitous Hack 'N' Whack... same thing.

What do we desire, anyway? Should we be surprised if those desires surface in the stories we write? I am forty-seven years old... I think. More or less. Anyway, the stories I wrote when I was fourteen (long since burned) meet many of Nerwen's checklists (except mpreg). I rescued many heroes, including Lancelot (mad), Boromir (rescuscitated from his elvish boat after Faramir's vision) and so on and so forth. Was it based on being a depressed kid, moping about wishing that somebody loyal might fight for me and rescue me out of my moping? Oh, I suppose, you know, maybe.

I shall agree with Lush quite loudly about this: just because the author of an abused Marysue doesn't announce that she suffered similar things, I would not therefore assume that she had, therefore, not suffered similar things.

Elrond's other daughter. Hmmm. How come I never wrote that one?

Nerwen · 06-22-2008, 07:50 PM

Look, I didn't mean to offend you, guys, and I'm very sorry to hear this happened to you– but I don't think for a moment that I'm underestimating the numbers. Buried in the heap there may well be a few who are using it as therapy... but most of these girls are, my view, very, very clearly copying from each other. Also they use it– quite shamelessly– to give their stories "cred".

If you'll forgive me for saying this– people who have had such experiences may not be better at judging than anyone else, simply because they're so ready to see it everywhere, to believe they have a special insight, and to be willing to ignore the signs that scream, "Fake!" to everyone else. Which is quite natural, but it doesn't make them right.

I have known such a person in real life who maintains to this day that I "must" have been abused myself, and am "in denial"!

Guess what? She's wrong.

EDIT: There's really not a lot of point continuing this particular argument, because it heads straight into "negative proof" territory. (Also, I guess it has the potential to be deeply hurtful to some people.) I am just giving you my opinion here.

06-15-2008, 12:32 PM	#2
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Morthoron, I get the exact same error message, so it's not a personal problem of yours. I would guess that it's a remnant of the problems we had with forum software in the past. I will check with The Barrow-Wight to see what he can do about it - thanks for alerting the rest of us to the problem! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-15-2008, 03:39 PM	#3
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Oh dear. Btw, anyone know of any good ones that center on Aragorn? The Legolas ones are a dime a dozen, and some are very, very good, but you kinda hate to see a King getting snubbed like that. Especially when you consider the wealth of material to work with there (and no, I don't just mean good looks ). __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

06-16-2008, 02:08 AM	#4
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Here's a random observation, A lot of the fanfics written by young girls mention abuse. Now obviously a checkered past is a staple of the Mary Sue, but you have to wonder how many of the authors are dealing with their own problems this way. I certainly did when I was a kid. I look over my old stories now, and go, "hmmm, well this badly drawn character with the blue eyes had this nasty thing happen to her and look here, it says 'the scars on her soul.' Bad line, but hmmm." Fanfiction as low-grade therapy, baby. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

06-22-2008, 09:54 AM	#5
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	I think it's more often angst at being forced to do the dishes. Most things you see a lot in fan-fiction are, purely and simply, the result of writers copying each other. People like me who mock it for a hobby– we call ourselves "sporkers", and it's practically a subculture– know that there are a few basic elements that recur with absurd frequency in story after story, e.g. There is a tenth member of the Fellowship. Boromir is an evil misogynist. The main character is Elrond's other daughter. Or Sauron's daughter. Legolas and Aragorn are boyhood friends and have adventures together. Thranduil is a drunk and beats Legolas. Either Legolas or Aragorn is blind/deaf/mute/crippled/scarred. A male character has a baby. (AKA "Mpreg".) Elladan and Elrohir are pranksters (a la the Weasley twins). And, of course, Abused girl is hit by a car, wakes up in Middle-earth and finds out that she is the Chosen One. We actually classify fan-fics by their dominant cliches: "Look, another Blind!Aragorn". What I'm saying is, there's no way fan-fic authors could be coming up with all this independently. Another thing: Because it's such a cliche, stories about abuse will attract a lot of negative reviews– Fan-fic authors get very upset at this and defend their stories hotly, but I've never known one to use the grounds that it all happened to her. I know many former "Suethors" who tell me they put all the trauma stuff in because, well, everyone else did and they kind of thought you had to. In fact– I'll come clean– I've produced some pretty melodramatic stories myself! In fact, judging from my own travesties, I think the other thing at work here is that young writers know that you're meant to give the main character some kind of adversity to overcome, but they just haven't learned any sense of moderation yet. Edit: I'm not saying every fan-fiction is terrible. There are some very good ones around. It's just that I deliberately seek out bad ones... __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. Last edited by Nerwen; 06-22-2008 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Adding a comment

06-22-2008, 02:47 PM	#6
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Like you, I like seeking out the bad ones as well. I think they can be hugely entertaining, and you can pretty much play bingo with all the clichés. I also see sometimes how young authors in particular try the various, ah, staples on the genre on for size and explore what they can do with them. Those I always find interesting. I also wouldn't underestimate the amount of real abuse survivors who are writing this stuff. Obviously abuse is great for when you're creating faux tension - "Legolas! Oh noes! We can't be together - my creepy uncle once turned me into a newt as a practical joke, and I've just never been the same! I love you! Don't touch me!" On the other hand, some of the very disturbing and resonating descriptions of abuse are obviously either the result of a great imagination, actual trauma, or some combination thereof. cough When Lush was a wee little girl, she wrote melodramatic prose about her own abuse, which helped her cope. If only fan fiction was around back then. coughedy cough __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

06-22-2008, 03:48 PM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	An interesting teacher (John Eldridge at RansomedHeart) says that there are six basic desires woven into the fabric of humans. Let's see if I can recall all six. The desire for a great battle to fight; the desire for a great adventure; the desire for a Beauty to rescue. Versus, the desire to be fought for; the desire for shared adventure (in the process of being fought for); and the desire to be The Beauty. Another significant desire is the desire to heal. Beauty Heals (insert temporarily disabled hero). I remember this one myself; favorites stories were about rescuing angst-ridden heroes (Mad Lancelot, for instance). Having said all that, I think most stories are autobiographical to some degree. Especially if they are any good; but even when they are not. Your pardon all, but using the phrase "writing as therapy" simply gains one the label Captain Obvious. What else is it? What else could it possibly be? Any story that we tell, we tell because we are part of a story ourselves, and we remind ourselves of the themes of our story by weaving those themes into the stories we tell. So a young authoress wants to be Elrond's Other Daughter, the Beauty to be rescued... it comes from those root desires. And the ubiquitous Hack 'N' Whack... same thing. What do we desire, anyway? Should we be surprised if those desires surface in the stories we write? I am forty-seven years old... I think. More or less. Anyway, the stories I wrote when I was fourteen (long since burned) meet many of Nerwen's checklists (except mpreg). I rescued many heroes, including Lancelot (mad), Boromir (rescuscitated from his elvish boat after Faramir's vision) and so on and so forth. Was it based on being a depressed kid, moping about wishing that somebody loyal might fight for me and rescue me out of my moping? Oh, I suppose, you know, maybe. I shall agree with Lush quite loudly about this: just because the author of an abused Marysue doesn't announce that she suffered similar things, I would not therefore assume that she had, therefore, not suffered similar things. Elrond's other daughter. Hmmm. How come I never wrote that one? __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

06-22-2008, 07:50 PM	#8
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Look, I didn't mean to offend you, guys, and I'm very sorry to hear this happened to you– but I don't think for a moment that I'm underestimating the numbers. Buried in the heap there may well be a few who are using it as therapy... but most of these girls are, my view, very, very clearly copying from each other. Also they use it– quite shamelessly– to give their stories "cred". If you'll forgive me for saying this– people who have had such experiences may not be better at judging than anyone else, simply because they're so ready to see it everywhere, to believe they have a special insight, and to be willing to ignore the signs that scream, "Fake!" to everyone else. Which is quite natural, but it doesn't make them right. I have known such a person in real life who maintains to this day that I "must" have been abused myself, and am "in denial"! Guess what? She's wrong. EDIT: There's really not a lot of point continuing this particular argument, because it heads straight into "negative proof" territory. (Also, I guess it has the potential to be deeply hurtful to some people.) I am just giving you my opinion here. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. Last edited by Nerwen; 06-22-2008 at 10:19 PM.

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