Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[satansaloser2005]

*chuckles* Ah, Volo, you make me giggle.


I'll probably end up repping you all tomorrow. I have a rather boring meeting at which I can hijack wireless. And again....


++Good game, everyone!

[littlemanpoet]

Wow. What fun! I started reading (I should say scanning) after the beginning of Day 3 (after all, a certain couple of rpg's had ground to a halt). What a ride! I'm really happy that this little game I made up is so playable by anyone who wants to give it a go. You did great, Nogrod! Needless to say, the phantom was awesome too. I was stunned and impressed by Diamond's coming out as GW then revealed by death as the late seer.

I think I can make a case that the scale was tipped in the favor of the GW. In DW I, the Good guys were allowed to talk to each other during the Day but not during the Night, and this gave the EW too great an advantage. Worse, in DW I the GW started with no gifteds whereas the EW started with 3 werewolves and chose a fourth on Night One.

In DW II, it was decided that the Good guys could communicate at Night just like the Evil guys, which evened things up. However, the good guys started out with 3 gifteds. This is what tipped the balance, I think, in favor of the good guys, and here's why: whenever the good guys had a seer, there were two Scries per Night for the good guys whereas the EW only had one. That's a powerful advantage! And it is why in DW-I, I made it so that the GW had started with no gifteds. My purpose was so that there should be a general sense of panic amongst the ordos with the EW almost assuredly getting a fourth werewolf on Night One, taking two ordos out per Night for three Nights (or more) running; it's why there needs to be such a big village. Of course, the GW would scry for a seer on Night One, but the seer wouldn't get to scry until Night Two. And only after the third Night does the GW have all the resources available to him or her, thus finally making it a more even game; by which time the EW might have 6 werewolves, or might only have 3 or 4 depending. It would probably make for a more intense game, and more exciting.

So the upshot, I believe, Rikae, is that you were fighting an uphill battle from Day Two onward. This takes nothing away from the stellar play of both good and bad guys. And I think Nogrod's choices were worth making; after all, DW is a work in progress (if there is ever a DW III). I wonder, though, if Rikae intuitively sensed that the playing field was (unintentionally) tilted against her, and therefore played her very risky trump card of claiming to be GW? Pure speculation; maybe she just sensed that she had already been scried.

Anyway, it was great fun to see the action unfold, even if it did interrupt the flow of a couple of rpgs.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm ready to play again!

I think I need to be louder still.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I think I need to be louder still.

You could...
but honestly, at times you really played fine! I mean you really posted during some of the Days!

Even if Lommy and Greenie are sleeping now I can tell you behind their backs that we all three appreciated your activity quite a lot!

Great (at times)!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think it's up to those individuals who volunteered to tell us that if they wish. But there were seven of them...

Okay, then: I was one of them, as tp guessed:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Right before the game started I made a list of the most likely Wizards, you see, and Nerwen was in the top five.

Perhaps that will console the Faceless One in his lifelong guilt at having taken part in the bloodthirsty lynching of an innocent Nerwen.

[Diamond18]

I know I said I applied, but I didn't actually. I had the time, but since it's been so long since I last played werewolf, to dive into a Wizard role seemed the height of foolish bravado. I thought about it wistfully for a moment or two then figured I'd have my hands and/or paws full enough should I get scried.

And I was right.

[Nogrod]

Maybe I should now reveal this one as both those included have come forth...

As I looked at the list of the candidates my mind immediately came with a "perfect" game where Aganzir would have been the EW and Nerwen would have been the GW.

I really thought of making it thus.

But then my "principaled nature" (depending on what principles we're talking about! ) won me over and demanded me to throw a dice as I do believe one should make these random indeed and not to just pick the roles.

The first dice showed the phantom...

I did for a moment thought of recurring back to my choices as he would have been so obvious a Wizard-candidate.

But I threw the dice again and it turned out Rikae!

Then I thought this was just meant to be...

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by LMP

In DW II, it was decided that the Good guys could communicate at Night just like the Evil guys, which evened things up. However, the good guys started out with 3 gifteds. This is what tipped the balance, I think, in favor of the good guys, and here's why: whenever the good guys had a seer, there were two Scries per Night for the good guys whereas the EW only had one. That's a powerful advantage!

I agree. It wouldn't hurt to adjust it for next time. Of course, we can't forget the personality aspect. When the GW and the EW think the same way, well....

[the phantom]

All right, a quick review from my perspective.

First, I did not tell the gifteds who their friends were unless it was already revealed to everyone. I didn't see the need to take such a risk. From Night 1 pms-

Originally Posted by me

At this point I am not going to tell you who the other gifteds are. If there comes a Night where I am certain I am going to challenge the following day I will let you all know each other's identities, and I will also provide you with a code that will allow the Seer to tell the Hunter and Ranger who they dreamed of the night before and what their role was.

Originally Posted by me

Know that I will not give a full response to suggestions that you make, for you may in fact suggest someone who is a fellow gifted, and at this point I do not wish for you to know each other, in case the EW scries you two Nights in a row and gains access to all of your info.

Originally Posted by me

I'm not going to do much lying to you and your fellow gifteds, but I fully intend to be misleading about certain things, or rather omit certain things, or leave certain pieces of information out there that if given to the EW would do nothing but harm him.

Sorry, but I just have to consider that one of you could be turned into a WW, and keeping that in mind with every pm I send you is something that could actually swing the game in my favor should you be converted to Wolfdom.

Also, I didn't care about protecting my identity all that much.

Originally Posted by me

I don't care if the EW finds out who I am early on. It's not like he'll challenge early. Plus I plan on revealing fairly early anyway.

Originally Posted by me

I don't think it is likely I will stay hidden past Day 5, so is it really worth it to try and hide when I could just reveal myself and gain full control of the lynch mob?

Mac had a good handle on potential wizards early, listing Nerwen, Agan, and Rikae as the most likely EWs.

Before the first day started I made a list of thirteen people that it would be acceptable to lynch. Then I said this-

Originally Posted by me

And if we lynch someone on the list and they are in fact a gifted, don't be too upset with me. I simply can't keep all of you off the lists, for it would be too easy for you to help the EW narrow his list down should you be converted.

But in fact there were no gifteds on the list. It was a bluff in case one of them got converted.

On Night 2 Volo was quite certain that Mac was good and possibly gifted. And then Lalaith told me she suspected Volo was a good guy and said that she didn't feel good about Aganzir. Then Volo said he didn't suspect Lommy. And then at one point Lal said Cailin made her uneasy. Mac agreed, and also voiced mistrust of Rikae.

So don't let them tell you they didn't get anything right. They got quite a lot right.

Let me tell you, it was extremely helpful to hear from my gifteds and get their reactions. Sometimes it helped me form an opinion on something I hadn't thought about much, other times they agreed with me and it confirmed what I was already thinking, and other times they would actually disagree and yet confirm what I was already thinking because I would reread posts to see what it was that was making my gifted think what they were thinking.

And yes, kudos to Mac for wanting to protect Volo the night he was killed. However, I had already decided that I would never protect the Seer. I didn't want the EW to ever think I was protecting the Seer and scry them the next night to keep them from using the Seer gift.

On Night 3 Di proved to be right with her opinions about LomLom and Caiomer. So she definitely got things right as well.

I'm sort of debating whether or not I should post my pm to Lalaith here- the one in which I lay out the code that would've been used had there not been a new WW created and I had managed to get a Seer. What do you think, Lal? Show everyone, or save it for the future.

[Lalaith]

Well, my dearest old wiz, it was your code so you decide. I don't think it would hurt to reveal..you could always change/vary it.

You know, there is a pattern here. The last time you and I played together, the gamed was also modded by Nogrod. You also pretended to be the Hunter, then. (I dreamt of you before I died, found you innocent, and then aided and abetted you to announce your false Huntership...)

[Nogrod]

It's a great concept lmp! And I'm sure we'll see a DW III maybe next year, maybe the one following that as it's kind of "mega-game" you can't put forwards very soon after another has ended. Rarity is one of its assets (DW I was played about exactly two years from the DW II).
*so the next mod get ready for I'm going to play in the next one*

I see the point of your discussion about the changes in the relative strengths of both sides lmp but I'd like to stress that the GW basically scried/ dreamt of one wolf/EW per Night. In a village that starts from almost thirty that's just unbelievably good luck - or sharp-eyedness... stress on the word unbelievable in both cases!

There were so many points in this game the whole thing might have taken a totally different route had one dream / scry been different... Had tp not scried Dury (without a seer eg. with his only scry!) there would have been three wolves in the end... that would have made a difference!

Or taking an example from the other perspective... Had Rikae taken as her last wolf (which she didn't know was to become her last) someone like Lommy or Shasta the game would still be going on... or had she not de-scried Lalaith but actually managed to get herself one more wolf at the Night before...

So I think we had quite a nice balance this time... it was only that our Wizards produced some very unprobable actions!

But surely it's for the next one to host this game to decide whether to change the rules and into which direction...