Werewolf XLVIII: When Virtual Becomes Reality

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I've been up to something but I fear that, if my initial suspicions were accurate, I have spoiled the plan a bit. I hope that's not the case.

I said Mithalwen is suspicious on Day 1. Night 2's attack was hidden from us. I thought it might have been directed at me, so I had to keep up the anti-Mithalwen sentiment on Day 2. Lo and behold, I'm not attacked. They don't think I'm the seer, and Mithalwen is innocent.

Only... I spoiled it yesterday by saying that I trusted Nerwen more. On Day 1 I said Nerwen was one of the wolves. The wolves could assume I wanted to dream about Nerwen, and me trusting her more indicates that I'm no seer but just got lucky with my Mithalwen vote.

But maybe they thought I dreamt of Eonwe, my other wolf....

And there's a new wolf today!

Well, as it stands, I'm not that suspicious of Mithalwen any more.

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I was surprised to find that the Elf Warrior was an ordo. He seemed so obviously bad.

As to the Kath kill, because she had no suspicions whatsoever, it leads me to perhaps believe that not a single person in the village is right about anything! No-one is going after a wolf, so obviously no seer has dreamt of a wolf. What does this tell us? I'll post again in a few minutes.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It tells us to think before you post. Stupid, half-baked idea. Forget it. I'll look through what different kill-choices entail.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Kill Nilp: 2 votes for Eonwe. Obvious lead.
Kill Kitanna: Votes Aganzir Day 2. Lead.
Kill Mithalwen: Voted EW. Slight lead to Sally?
Kill Ka: Votes Rikae then Eonwe: Slight leads.
Kill Form: Voted EW. Slight lead to Nogrod?
Kill Eomer: Obvious lead to Mith.
Kill Shasta: Eonwe lead.
Kill Eonwe: Voted EW. Slight lead to Mithalwen.
Kill Rikae: Voted Nerwen then EW. No lead.
Kill sally: Voted Sixth and EW. No lead.
Kill Boromir: Voted Sixth and EW. No lead.
Kill Aganzir: Voted Sixth and EW. No lead.
Kill Nogrod: Lead to Kitanna.

The wolves killed Kath, and not because they thought she was the seer. They chose to give the village absolutely no leads. Why not kill, say Eomer, and set-up Mithalwen?

Eonwe doesn’t need setting up; he is under much suspicion already, and will remain that way for the rest of the game, probably. But Mith could be set up beautifully, and Kitanna and Aganzir too. (Nogrod and Sally slightly, but more dubiously.)

Sorry Mith, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Sorry Mith, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Story of my life in so many ways.... but Eomer I think (and with a only too acute sense of irony) that you may be taking this too personally. You may have to consider that the game isn't revolving around you.

I don't know why people are suprised about Kath being killed. She made few posts but she is a very good player, the wolves may have thought it worth getting her out of the way before she could get more active.

Also if she was the ranger save then the wolves, as Nilp points out, having been foiled may have wanted a certain kill. Eomer's kill list doesn't factor in our very talented ranger. I can't remember a game where a ranger got it right first time. And in this game there was even a possibility that Kath was the ranger.

I hope to be around a bit longer but real life factors are conspiring against me - see admin thread.

[Mithalwen]

Oh I see, yet another day when Mith rambles away to herself like the crazywoman she is and then no doubt you all emerge the second I am gone. Well I shall give it about half an hour and then shall ramble a bit more, vote and leave ...

[Durelin]

Alright, some conclusions from my ramblings:

Vaguely in order of suspicion (vaguely because I am incredibly indecisive):

Shasta
Mith
Sally
Eomer
Nogrod

Aganzir makes good points about Nilp I guess, but I'm just not feeling it.

I really like Shasta right now, with his arguing of principles and such, which is why I think he might well be a wolf.

Mith and Sally feel slippery. It seems like they're trying to be...nice.

Eomer bothers me. He's channeling phantom-ness.

It just seems so right for Nogrod to be a wolf right now.

Sally - Eonwe seems cheesy...he seems to me like he's trying too hard to be surprised at things, to be interested in things, to look like he's doing something...you know, bad acting.

[satansaloser2005]

Quick check-in post. Sorry, can't stay (only have about two minutes) but I'm letting you know that I WILL be back at the end of the Day to vote. And I mean the end. (Good thing the Downs clock is slow though.) See you all then.


P.S. Ah. Gotcha, Durelin. Thought that might have been what you meant, but wasn't sure. Okay, gotta rush now. G'bye.

[Mithalwen]

Me, try to be nice? Lol - my heart is usually firmly on my sleeve and I can't believe that I can be tramsmitting much other than grumpiness and a drop of sarcasm.

Can someone explain this principle of Noggie's. I am not sure I can see the moral highground of voting for Kit when it didn't matter. I am not sure what is the point of principles only invoked when they are irrelevant, it doesn't inspire a great deal of faith in the courage of his convictions.

If I give up trying to sort through the posts (and time is against me) I may well may well vote for him on the principle that I am getting heartily fed up with him acting as some kind of cyber sheep-dog, voting literally at at the last minute, expecting everyone else to vote before him, then wringing his hands in moral outrage when they fail to do what he wants. Especially as when he has done it in other games he has played he has been a wolf. Just seems like such a major back covering exercise as if he is terrified a vote may incriminate him in some way - manipulative without risking the exposure of taking a lead.

I will have another think because Form was right that personal irritation may be a dangerous guide... and now I have that fully out of my system .. I may be able to see clearer ... or not...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

A few words before voting:

• Love the SAVE, Durelin.
  
  
• Made you look, implies sally's sig.
  
  
• Shasta has an avatar now!
  
  
• Speaking of Shasta, the Shasta/Eomer show feels a bit staged to me. Hmmm . . .
  
  
• Enedwaith, cuz:

  I'm not constructing a logical argument to demonstrate my innocence. All I'm saying is that if I was a wolf, I'd be gentler in my public dealings. I am not trying to convince you -- that would be futile -- but perhaps some other folk in the village remember me as a colder, more dismissive wolf, rather than the loud, fight-seeking chap I'm showing myself to be here today. It's not general; it's particular to me. Frankly, I don't care if anyone buys it; I'm not hiding my thoughts, and it's way less pressure to play as an innocent. (Eomer)

  Actually, the best I can remember of your wolvish behaviour is attacking spawn, calling her a liar, me getting vengeance, and a bloody Saucepan victory. So, sorry, you can't really tell us how you'd act as a Wolf.
  
  
• Judging from Nerwen's voting, I'd say Eönwë's innocent, too. Gah.

Augh, my brain is still dead and dry. I find no-one really suspicious, and I'm tempted just to vote for the least-suspicious-seeming person cos I feel I've been barking up the wrong trees . . .

All I can say is I don't buy assuming people innocent just because they thought Nerwen suspicious . . . you can say all you want about someone, but it all comes down to voting, whether you really want the person you suspect lynched or not. Boromir and Aganzir, as I've said before, did not follow through their suspicion by voting.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That was ages ago, Nilp. In the last 42000 times I've been a wolf I've been far calmer.

What's with Nilp waking up so early to be around at deadline, though? I don't remember seeing that before. Could the stakes be too high for sleep, dear cousin?

I think Mith has a good point about Nogrod. I'm already wary of him so the pieces certainly fit. I'm thinking Nogrod, Nilp and Shasta, two of those as the original wolf.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I play to win now, cuz, no longer merely to have fun. Although getting votes is still quite a rush . . .

Besides, I'm already awake trying to cudgel my mind into churning a thousand words in German for a paper on Enlightenment and the Philippines.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Shasta seems utterly against Eomer on his assurance of EW's guilt based upon what to me looks like the above theory. I know yesterday at least Rikae was following the same sort thing, calling EW "dead weight" at one point. So, why attack Eomer about it, Shasta?

Why Eomer and not Rikae? Because due to something someone else (I think it was actually you, Kitanna!) said, Rikae seems innocent to me based on her first-day Nerwen vote. Part of it, though, is that I've been suspicious of Eomer since Day 1 and this just adds fuel to the fire.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

To me, the person with the biggest change over last night was Shasta. Until today he was very quiet, or at least very laid back and even though he posted, he didn't really say much. Today, he seemed much more lively and engaging in conversation. But maybe this is just a matter of time restraints (like my non-activity today before now). We'll just have to see if it develops into something.

Yes... During the extended Night 3, I was forced to sell my car. Now that I'm stuck at home with no place to go and nothing to do, I may as well sit here at the computer and post for all I'm worth.

Originally Posted by Durelin

I really like Shasta right now, with his arguing of principles and such, which is why I think he might well be a wolf.

Dury! How could you!

Originally Posted by Mith

I may well may well vote for him on the principle that I am getting heartily fed up with him acting as some kind of cyber sheep-dog, voting literally at at the last minute, expecting everyone else to vote before him, then wringing his hands in moral outrage when they fail to do what he wants. Especially as when he has done it in other games he has played he has been a wolf. Just seems like such a major back covering exercise as if he is terrified a vote may incriminate him in some way - manipulative without risking the exposure of taking a lead.

And I do like this point of Mith's. I may just go back and take a good look at our dear wannabe-moderator.

Originally Posted by Nilp

Shasta has an avatar now!

Yay, someone noticed! You like it?

Edit: X'd with Eomer and Nilp. Boy, someone's suspicions sure have changed, haven't they?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Edit: X'd with Eomer and Nilp. Boy, someone's suspicions sure have changed, haven't they?

Is this me, you're talking about? Could it be that things changed after we found a wolf?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I've been up to something but I fear that, if my initial suspicions were accurate, I have spoiled the plan a bit. I hope that's not the case.

I said Mithalwen is suspicious on Day 1. Night 2's attack was hidden from us. I thought it might have been directed at me, so I had to keep up the anti-Mithalwen sentiment on Day 2. Lo and behold, I'm not attacked. They don't think I'm the seer, and Mithalwen is innocent.

Only... I spoiled it yesterday by saying that I trusted Nerwen more. On Day 1 I said Nerwen was one of the wolves. The wolves could assume I wanted to dream about Nerwen, and me trusting her more indicates that I'm no seer but just got lucky with my Mithalwen vote.

But maybe they thought I dreamt of Eonwe, my other wolf....

And there's a new wolf today!

Well, as it stands, I'm not that suspicious of Mithalwen any more.

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I was surprised to find that the Elf Warrior was an ordo. He seemed so obviously bad.

As to the Kath kill, because she had no suspicions whatsoever, it leads me to perhaps believe that not a single person in the village is right about anything! No-one is going after a wolf, so obviously no seer has dreamt of a wolf. What does this tell us? I'll post again in a few minutes.

Bwah??????????? *rereads* Blah, it still is weird. Eomer, what the devil are you talking about, mate? *hobbles away and vows to reread this post in the morning when her faculties are about her*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eomer

I was surprised to find that the Elf Warrior was an ordo. He seemed so obviously bad.

Well aren't we perceptive, considering that EW made exactly 5 posts in this topic; two of them banter, two of them votes, and the last making a note of his gender. Clearly, pure evil right there.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Well aren't we perceptive, considering that EW made exactly 5 posts in this topic; two of them banter, two of them votes, and the last making a note of his gender. Clearly, pure evil right there.

I dislike disrespecting the dead, but EW's posts were so remarkably unhelpful that he was practically asking the village to lynch him.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I dislike disrespecting the dead, but EW's posts were so remarkably unhelpful that he was practically asking the village to lynch him.

Which is something a wolf would obviously NOT do, so...

I'm sorry, I still fail to see the logic behind this.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Not obvious, and I did rather think he was the cobbler. If he was obviously NOT a wolf then you, Shasta, must be seriously hacked off at the village right now.

Or perhaps you, with secret knowledge, have climbed to the moral high-ground here?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Not obvious, and I did rather think he was the cobbler. If he was obviously NOT a wolf then you, Shasta, must be seriously hacked off at the village right now.

Or perhaps you, with secret knowledge, have climbed to the moral high-ground here?

"Not obvious"? So a wolf would ask the village to lynch them? And if you thought he was the cobbler, you would have said as much, because the cobbler counts as an innocent in win-lose calculations, doesn't it? And I'm not "hacked off", but I am a little bit irritated, both at the lynch AND the wolf-kill, because both were aimed at people who through no fault of their own (definately in the case of Kath, probably in the case of EW), but rather RL-issues, were unable to really play.

And I don't understand your last comment. "Secret knowledge"? Just what are you implying, Eomer?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I dislike disrespecting the dead, but EW's posts were so remarkably unhelpful that he was practically asking the village to lynch him.

Sorry, can't sleep, so I figured I'd have a go at this.


I have a big problem with this way of thinking. "So and so isn't being helpful, so let's kill him" is a baseless argument. Granted, by the time I voted there were three candidates and I didn't want to kill either of the others, hence why I voted why I did, but even I don't see the reasoning behind it (do with that what you will, it's the truth. I even said when I voted that I was picking the lesser of three evils)
Just because a person isn't posting much or isn't being helpful doesn't mean they're evil. That's along the same logic as "Donna posted tenth and the tenth post is always made by a wolf" or "Jackie didn't vote until David did both days so she must be following instructions from him". I just don't see the logic. (Granted, there are quiet wolves, but being only Day 2 it seems rather strange to accuse a person of unhelpfulness and lynch them for it. Again, being a bit of a hypocrite but as I said, I did what I thought best at the time.)
So the moral of the story is if you want to suggest lynching someone, fine, but find a better reason to do it than that they are not being as helpful as you'd like. Sorry if it's a bit blunt, but....erm, it's 3am, so bear with me.



Also, please do explain the post I quoted above. I realize I'm probably just stupid, but I'd appreciate it if you'd rephrase it so I don't misunderstand what you're talking about. Thanks in advance.


EDIT: Ignore my second example (regarding such people as Jackie and David). My brain frazzled in the middle of it and I actually put something that made sense. Obviously I'm leaving it in, but mostly so you all can laugh at my ineptness.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I have a big problem with this way of thinking. "So and so isn't being helpful, so let's kill him" is a baseless argument. Granted, by the time I voted there were three candidates and I didn't want to kill either of the others, hence why I voted why I did, but even I don't see the reasoning behind it (do with that what you will, it's the truth. I even said when I voted that I was picking the lesser of three evils)
Just because a person isn't posting much or isn't being helpful doesn't mean they're evil. That's along the same logic as "Donna posted tenth and the tenth post is always made by a wolf" or "Jackie didn't vote until David did both days so she must be following instructions from him". I just don't see the logic. (Granted, there are quiet wolves, but being only Day 2 it seems rather strange to accuse a person of unhelpfulness and lynch them for it. Again, being a bit of a hypocrite but as I said, I did what I thought best at the time.)
So the moral of the story is if you want to suggest lynching someone, fine, but find a better reason to do it than that they are not being as helpful as you'd like. Sorry if it's a bit blunt, but....erm, it's 3am, so bear with me.



Also, please do explain the post I quoted above.


EDIT: Ignore my second example (regarding such people as Jackie and David). My brain frazzled in the middle of it and I actually put something that made sense. Obviously I'm leaving it in, but mostly so you all can laugh at my ineptness.

Yeah, I really think your analogies don't work.

Elf Warrior was adding too little, and what he did add came with no insight or thoughts. I find such behaviour suspicious. I don't see what the big deal is here.

As to my post earlier which you claim not to understand, it basically amounts to this:

1. I suspected Mithalwen. Ranger stopped kill.

2. I thought I might have been targetted, due to Mithalwen's being wolvish and thinking I'm seer. Kept saying I was suspicious of Mith.

3. Did not get attacked, so wolves don't think I'm a big threat. Mithalwen probably innocent.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Yeah, I really think your analogies don't work.

Elf Warrior was adding too little, and what he did add came with no insight or thoughts. I find such behaviour suspicious. I don't see what the big deal is here.

As to my post earlier which you claim not to understand, it basically amounts to this:

1. I suspected Mithalwen. Ranger stopped kill.

2. I thought I might have been targetted, due to Mithalwen's being wolvish and thinking I'm seer. Kept saying I was suspicious of Mith.

3. Did not get attacked, so wolves don't think I'm a big threat. Mithalwen probably innocent.

Heh. Indeed they don't.

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. Like I said, a bit tired, and it looked as if you were saying that....well, it doesn't matter now, I've figured it out. Thanks for clarifying. (P.S. It's not that I claim to not understand it. Heh, I really didn't. Hey, I warned you I'm a bit slow on the uptake didn't I? )

And on that note, I am really going to bed. I swear. Probably be back in *weeps* five hours or so. Night (again) everyone!