Manwë stumbles

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by alatar

Eru changed this, breathing life into Aule's creations, who shirked when Aule thought to destroy them.

So what of Manwe? Does he have the same spark within, a flame that, like the dwarves, would make him flinch when Eru calls? Why would men, elves, etc have the notion to flee - to disobey the creator - and not Manwe?

I guess all that I'm looking for is a moment of doubt to spring forth from Manwe. One little moment to show that he's not some machine.

Because Manwe is dedicated to his mission does not mean he lacks a spark. Society somehow eschews the thought of consistently adhering to goodness but accepts the fundamental presence of evil, or the ease of corruptiveness; therefore, we can comprehend Morgoth's descent into evil more easily than Manwe's staying the course and following Eru's vision, because it is far more glamorous and interesting (as a simple example, in the movie Gone With the Wind, most folks remember Vivian Leigh's Scarlett O'Hara, but tend to forget Olivia DeHavilland's Melanie Hamilton). For every Mother Theresa there are thousands who would spit a baby on a bayonet.

But Manwe was certainly no machine. Consider the invasion of Ar-Pharazon and the Numenoreans. Was it out of cowardice that he surrendered his station to Eru's justice? I would say that is far-fetched. Did Manwe lack the military might to quash Ar-Pharazon? I would say that is absurd as well, seeing as he could have easily sent Eonwe and the armies that crushed Morgoth in the War of Wrath to do the same against the Numenoreans. Why then did he beg Eru's favor in this instance? Perhaps because he was not dealing with Morgoth and his cast of monstrosities, rather, it was the race of men, Children of Illuvtar, and he felt it was not in his power (or duty, if you will) to destroy men. That alone was for Eru to handle (as was the case of the Noldor, who, after the kin-slayings, escaped divine justice, or Eonwe letting Maedhros and Maglor escape after they stole the Silmarils and committed murder).

We find Manwe doubting about pressing issues, but we never see him doubt the master plan. And, after all, we are not speaking of a frail human's battered conscience, but a divinity who has seen more of the Creator's vision than any other Ainur; therefore, to psychoanalyze Manwe is rather like putting the Archangel Michael on the therapist's couch and asking him why he didn't follow Lucifer in his rebellion in Paradise Lost.

[Morthoron]

As a follow-up to my post, its interesting the ethical bases by which the Valar operate. Obviously, they are not necessarily motivated in the same moral sense the way we mortals are. My thought was sparked by seeing a quote by Mandos in the upper right of the BD title header. In reference to Feanor's saying, "...if I must break them [the Silmarils], I shall break my heart, and I shall be slain, first of all Eldar of Aman", and Mandos replied cryptically, "Not the first", intimating a prescience about clandestine activity happening elsewhere in the realm. Mandos knew, but did nothing to stop it, nor ameliorate a situation which was only to get worse. Yet we accept this in Mandos, because of the manner in which he operates (like the Greek Fates or the Norse Verdandi, Skuld and Urd) which is beyond morality and deals with doom and fate.

Of course, even an enigma like Mandos has his odd moments. He became a quivering mass of jelly after Luthien sang to him, "and Mandos was moved to pity, who never before was, nor has been since." Boy, I bet he was the target of ribbing and jokes afterwards in the Valar's private club. We also know that Tulkas and Orome have bad tempers, that Tulkas liked to wrestle (which for some reason always cracks me up), and Nienna cries all the time (which must make her a laugh riot at parties). What a strange lot the Valar were.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Eh... But Mandos granted Luthien's wish because he was so immensely touched... Or was it because it was "doom"?

"Boss, the parole's been cast... Ol' dusty seemed to have a weakness for the high pitches... Maybe you should pick up soprano." - Sauron's Letter to Morgoth during First Chaining