Those who dare enter Lorien

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Then perhaps I should have said the 'perception' of time flows differently within Lorien. There is no noticeable change, neither seasons nor trees bear the weight of change and age. To a mortal, this would have the same effect as if time stood still, save that they would continue to age while the world remained ever green. Without a means to gauge time, and given the enchanted nature of Lorien, it would be easy for a mortal to succumb to its enticement and forget the world outside; hence my allusion to Rip Van Winkle, or Thomas the Rhymer if you'd like.

I remember old wives' tales here in my native Philippines, those abducted by the encantos or diwatas (fairies and Co.) and later return find themselves gone for years. I assume that time does not stand still in the realm of the encantos or diwatas, but them being immortal and magical (very Lorien-ish), time would have a different effect. Things won't readily fade, they stay as they are--and if you don't really see the falling of leaves for example, or the harvesting and sowing of crops you'd eventually lose your long-term bio clock.

But to answer Galin's question, they'd age but not notice it, due maybe to the fair unchanging surroundings. But not even the Valar could remove the Doom of Men, yet maybe because of the power of the elven ring they could age more gracefully than others outside would.

Galadriel is an Elf, immortal, and powerful even by Elven standards. Gondor's lore was fading as the kingdom itself did, and Rohan was sort of "barbaric" when it comes to literature and elven culture. What do you expect them to think? She didn't really maintain contact with Gondor, if she had it at all, so the concept of her being an enchantress is consequential.

[Galin]

Regarding my statement above, and with respect to the Company not ageing in Lórien (or ageing very slowly), from Hammond and Scull:

Tolkien now also introduced the Shire Reckoning, and reached the chronology of The Tale of Years: the Company cross the Silverlode on 16 January 1419, and leave on 16 February. Marquette MSS 4/2/17, headed 'New Time Table allowing 30 days sojourn in Lothlórien' with an added note 'which seems less long than it is (in traditional way)' includes an entry:

'The Coy. [Company] stays in Lórien for many days. They cannot count the time, for they do not age in that time, but outside in fact 30 days goes by.' In Scheme a similar note says:' They cannot count the time, for they themselves do not age or only very slowly. Outside in fact about 30 days passes.'

This was one of the effects of the Elven ring worn by Galadriel. Bilbo had commented on a similar inability to reckon time in Rivendell, where Elrond also wore an Elven ring.'

Hammond and Scull, The Lord of the Rings, A Reader's Companion

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Galin

Regarding my statement above, and with respect to the Company not ageing in Lórien (or ageing very slowly), from Hammond and Scull:

So how come people around Gandalf aged?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

So how come people around Gandalf aged?

He wasn't bound to one place and traveled quite a lot, so nobody stayed close to him for much long. Maybe had the Fellowship remained together for longer time than just a few months...

[mark12_30]

Going to Faerie is different than having someone from Faerie visit you. Gandalf doesn't bring Faerie. Gildor brings a taste of it, but I doubt that Frodo, Sam, & Pippin stopped aging when they were with him.

If they ahd stayed for a month with Tom Bombadil, would they have aged then? I wonder.

[Lalwendë]

If Men went into Lorien (and they were probably either too busy elsewhere or too scared to do so), then they would likely have come out of there altered and somehow 'other'. Look how the place affected the members of the Fellowship, and they were more or less made welcome there. A Man might come out at best bewildered and at worst, changed.

It's a familiar tale in folklore and mythology, the mortal who enters Faerie and comes out many, many years later (the traditional time scale seems to be seven years later, whereas he feels he has been there for just one day) quite altered. It's also a familiar motif, the idea of a place that's far too perilous to enter because of the faeries - see Stardust and Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell for two good examples of it in modern literature.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

If Men went into Lorien (and they were probably either too busy elsewhere or too scared to do so), then they would likely have come out of there altered and somehow 'other'.

We do know that Aragorn went there. That's where he and Arwen formally 'plighted their troth": at Cerin Amroth. That's another entire discussion, isn't it? Aragorn grew up in Rivendell; visited Arwen (and Galadriel) in Lorien, at least twice.

Since Aragorn grew up in Rivendell, my guess is that Lorien would have less of an effect on him than it would have on, say, Forlong the Fat.

We saw what effect Lorien had on Boromir. Anyone care to hazard a guess on the effect Lorien would have on Faramir? Or Imrahil?

Or Denethor-- a frightening thought.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Going to Faerie is different than having someone from Faerie visit you. Gandalf doesn't bring Faerie. Gildor brings a taste of it, but I doubt that Frodo, Sam, & Pippin stopped aging when they were with him.

If they ahd stayed for a month with Tom Bombadil, would they have aged then? I wonder.

Good point.
But Tom Bombadil's house isn't Faerie. Or is it? The debate goes ever on and on, down from the book where it began, now far ahead the debate shall go, over.......

The thing is Tom Bombadil is more "down to earth", so I think that rather than stay the same in the way of elves and Maia, like "beings from above" they'd be more like the earth, changing, getting older, maybe very slowly but still getting older. Or maybe they'd age in the way of seasons, so every year they'd get older quicker than normal, but then be younger again in the spring.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Good point.
But Tom Bombadil's house isn't Faerie. Or is it?

Oh, where is Littlemanpoet when I need him. I think Tom does just as much preserving and protecting, without a ring, as Elrond and Galadriel do with a ring. Very much Faerie, very changeless. And amazing that the ring has no effect on him: makes no change in him.

The debate goes ever on and on, down from the book where it began, now far ahead the debate shall go, over.......

Nice!

The thing is Tom Bombadil is more "down to earth", so I think that rather than stay the same in the way of elves and Maia,.

Ah, but I would have called him an "Earthy Maia." He's so Yavanna-ish, or perhaps Melian or... you know. In terms of interest, and caring, and encouraging things to be what they are and ought.

.

like "beings from above" they'd be more like the earth, changing, getting older, maybe very slowly but still getting older. Or maybe they'd age in the way of seasons, so every year they'd get older quicker than normal, but then be younger again in the spring.

Oh, that's a delicious thought... very interesting.

Originally Posted by Lalwende

the mortal who enters Faerie and comes out many, many years later (the traditional time scale seems to be seven years later, whereas he feels he has been there for just one day) quite altered

My favorite is George Macdonald, who does things like:

Originally Posted by George Macdonald

The Golden Key
She turned and looked him full in the face—stood so for a whole minute, as she thought: it was a whole year...